General Donkey Kong Discussion => General Donkey Kong Discussion => Topic started by: YesAffinity on May 31, 2015, 02:36:22 pm
Title: Idea: video/audio capture from edge connector
Post by: YesAffinity on May 31, 2015, 02:36:22 pm
Hi all, I created a device for my jamma cabinet that captured video and audio, basically splicing the RGB and L/R lines of a JAMMA connector, and taking the lines to a board that converted the signals to either s-video or RCA for the video signal, and RCA-type connectors for the audio. I could then take the output from the a/v board to a PC USB capture device.
I'm wondering if a similar thing could be done using the unused edge connector of a DK board. I am not clear if the edge connector is actually functional on a DK board, though. In theory, you would simply get a female edge connector to connect to the unused connector on the board, connect the appropriate lines to a a/v board like I mention above, and could then get clean game a/v without having to use a webcam, camcorder, etc. to video your arcade gameplay.
If the edge connector can be used in this fashion, does such a device already exist?
Thoughts?
Title: Re: Idea: video/audio capture from edge connector
Post by: f_symbols on May 31, 2015, 03:41:54 pm
I do not know if said device exists, but I can tell you that Richie once had a cab running dual monitors at his arcade, they were both wired to the same pcb, and there was no discernible delay. Also, the edge connector definitely works, as you can run the PCB entirely from it, however I'm not sure about concurrent signals (ie. the edge connector and the harness connector at the same time..). This would be sweet for sure
Title: Re: Idea: video/audio capture from edge connector
Post by: xelnia on May 31, 2015, 03:54:16 pm
<Billy> loves it, I reckon.
Title: Re: Idea: video/audio capture from edge connector
Post by: ChrisP on May 31, 2015, 04:48:42 pm
Ethan, when you say "cab", do you mean Richie accomplished that with a DK cab?
Anyway, yes, the DK edge connector is very much functional (I am using it now with an adapter that the 0.1" plugs go into), so it would absolutely be possible to do a custom setup with leads ( <Pigger>) on the RGB/sync pins to wherever you want them to go.
You could even have your controls, coin, power, etc. all plugged into the 0.1" headers on the board as normal, but have the video coming from the edge connector pins.
The problem you're going to have with this is that Nintendo boards output inverted video, so you're going to need an inverter somewhere in the circuit (or do it with software if you're capturing to a PC).
Yeah, since <Billy> allegedly used a "direct video feed" (and definitely, absolutely not stitched-together MAME footage) to get his last 3 world records (including The Tape in KoK) you could just ask him how he did it! <Mruczek> must know how this was done too, since he verified two of those submissions...
Title: Re: Idea: video/audio capture from edge connector
Post by: f_symbols on June 01, 2015, 03:35:03 pm
Yes it was a DK, and Richie actually had an additional, ORIGINAL radar scope monitor, that he had sitting on the top, and it was spliced into the video wiring harness, IIRC.
Title: Re: Idea: video/audio capture from edge connector
Post by: jumpman on June 01, 2015, 05:08:37 pm
You can definitely run 2 sanyos from 1 cabinet. You can just splice or re-pin the video signal connector from existing harness and run to extra monitor. You would need a connector on the end of the wires running to extra monitor. I never thought about using the un used edge connector you mentioned. My cabinet uses a edge connector so I can switch out different pcbs quickly. Let us know if that works.. But no matter what do not plug the extra Sanyo into a wall outlet. You must use the plug in inside the cabinet because it needs the isolation/step down transformer that supplies the Sanyo with 100v. 120v is bad news for a Sanyo. Check out the old Bally midway factory made auxiliary monitor.
Title: Re: Idea: video/audio capture from edge connector
Post by: YesAffinity on June 21, 2015, 08:05:45 am
Okay, I got one of those jrok rgb to component/composite boards. I have the video and power connectors, and a speaker wire to rca connector, soldered to a 44-pin edge connector.
I am testing voltages at the edge connector, and do not find the voltages that should be present per this pinout:
My dc voltages, on the parts side (from the top) are:
0 (ground) 0 (ground) 24.1 (should be +5?) 0 (should be +5?) 3.9 (should be +12?) -4.7 (should be -5?)
I soldered the +5v for jrok board to the pin that is producing 24.1v, but when I turn it on, the screen is blank.
Anybody know why these voltages are not what the should be, or possibly that on Mike's Arcade is wrong?
I checked all the grounds, too, and they all have continuity, and have continuity to an equipment ground connected to one of the coin door screws (presumably grounding the coin door).
:edit: Problem potentially solved. That pinout I linked is oriented from the position of looking at the bottom of the edge connector. The 24v I was reading above is for the counter. I guess I should have verified voltage positions before completing all my soldering. :-[
Title: Re: Idea: video/audio capture from edge connector
Post by: jammyyy on June 21, 2015, 10:25:46 am
soldered to a 44-pin edge connector why? why are you fkin with the edge connector? just split the video cable off the board in to a Y plug one end i to monitor and the other end in to your RGBS to rca video component converter , and do the same with the audio line off the board , its non amplified so you can plug directly in to your computer, or yes you can get a 44 pin edge connector and take feed off the edge connector,,video to your RGBS to rca video component converter to a capture devise for computer and plug the audio to sound card line-in input :) The pinout mike has is correct ,,,, did the 24v fry your converter board :(
Title: Re: Idea: video/audio capture from edge connector
Post by: YesAffinity on June 21, 2015, 02:16:55 pm
The edge connector seemed a cleaner route to go.
Maybe I'm not versed enough in looking at pinouts, but the 24v on the parts side is toward the rear of the cabinet, with the +5v toward the front of the cabinet. You have to hold the printout of the pinout in the air and look up at it, with the print upside down, in order for it to align with the pinout on the board. <confused>
It might have fried it. When I plug in the converter board, brightness on the monitor goes way up and I'm getting garbage from the output of the converter board. When I unplug it, the monitor image is perfect again. The power LED on the converter board lights, though.
I have an e-mail in to rjok, to hopefully solicit his feedback. Looks like this project just got put on ice for an unknown duration of time.
Do you think the speaker+ output will work, if routed into a capture card? I had the audio output wired from the unamplified audio originally, but it seemed to disable the cabinet speaker.
Title: Re: Idea: video/audio capture from edge connector
Post by: YesAffinity on June 22, 2015, 12:10:27 pm
I pinged jrok, and it seems the video encoder is doing what it should, considering the inverted video. The inverted video, however, is more than just upside down as I thought it to be, and could be fixed with software (OBS has options to flip and rotate streaming/capturing video). The issue involves voltage on the color signals, and jrok confirmed that the encoder board v4.1 will not work with a stock DK output. He said the Nintendo-to-Jamma adapter from Mike's Arcade should work, and I notice that it corrects for inverted video output and has an amplified audio output. I have one on order as of this morning. God willing, I get the $50 bounty I submitted for in the DK Open, and this extra part will be paid for. Once I get this solution working, there will be some simple schematics and a parts and price list, for anyone wishing to do the same in the future.
Title: Re: Idea: video/audio capture from edge connector
Post by: YesAffinity on June 27, 2015, 04:40:33 pm
I'm making progress on this project, but still not getting good video. I got the inverter and audio amp board from mike's arcade. I've wired everything correctly, as far as I can tell. Attached is a line diagram and a picture of the video. If I mess with the R, G and B dials on either the inverter board or the jrok v4.1 encoder board, it affects the gray lines, but never turns into anything close to resembling a good image.
Title: Re: Idea: video/audio capture from edge connector
Post by: YesAffinity on July 11, 2015, 07:06:21 am
Well, I am making progress, although I am not yet at the end game. I got a jamma extender and put quick disconnects on the R,G,B,S,12V,5V and Ground lines. I tested the inverter board and jrok board individually. I am getting good video out of the inverter board, projecting on my JAMMA cabinet, while simultaneously getting good video on the DK cab. Picture attached.
Pulling video from the JAMMA cabinet and a street fighter PCB, I am still getting no video signal out of the jrok board. :-\
Title: Re: Idea: video/audio capture from edge connector
Post by: YesAffinity on July 11, 2015, 07:07:08 am
Line diagram of the JAMMA/jrok test setup attached. The only thing that I can think may be an issue with the test setup is pulling video signal from the SF PCB. In my mind, this is logically where the signal is derived, but should the signal be wired from JAMMA monitor to jrok board?
Title: Re: Idea: video/audio capture from edge connector
Post by: tilt on July 11, 2015, 09:06:02 am
Have you been able to verify that the jrok works with the CGA video signal from the street fighter board? If anything, it should be able to encode that video. After you do that and it still doesnt work, I would contact the jrok guy because if you have done all this testing and the screen still shows grey bars, something is wrong.
Title: Re: Idea: video/audio capture from edge connector
Post by: YesAffinity on July 11, 2015, 10:29:14 am
Yes, I tested the jrok board with the video output from the street fighter pcb. A picture of the line diagram of that setup is attached to the post above yours. With that setup, taking composite and component (testing each individually) to a hdtv, the tv says 'no signal'. I then removed the test setup, and re-connected the sf board in the jamma cabinet, and the game displayed normally (just triple checking that all the 'know good' components were still indeed good).
I've sent the info to jrok, hopefully he responds soon. I am eager to get closure on this project and have a working custom video capture solution.
Title: Re: Idea: video/audio capture from edge connector
Post by: YesAffinity on August 19, 2015, 07:15:32 pm
After getting the jrok encoder replaced by jrok (first one wasn't seeing sync), and integrating a jrok sync cleaner, I am getting video and audio out of the edge connector. I will do a single line diagram eventually, but for now wanted to post pics of the first tests.
Composite video is a bit "jaggedy". I don't have the ability to test s-video except on a crappy USB capture device, which wasn't doing well with either the s-video output or the composite output. The component looks amazing.
Does anybody know a good, inexpensive, USB component capture device? I need USB because I'm capturing to my laptop and don't have the ability to drag a desktop computer within range of my DK cab.
The pictures in order show:
1) First test run setup, via composite out with nothing secured within the cab 2) First test run monitor display, via composite out with nothing secured within the cab 3) All components secured in the cabinet, composite video displaying
Title: Re: Idea: video/audio capture from edge connector
Post by: YesAffinity on August 19, 2015, 07:16:15 pm
4) The secured components, from left to right: jrok encoder on side wall, Mike's Arcade inverter board, jrok sync cleaner. Yes I know the wire management isn't great. There's a lot of wires going a lot of directions, and this is probably as good as its going to get for a while. 5) Component video displaying 6) Component video displaying
Title: Re: Idea: video/audio capture from edge connector
Post by: Rolledcigs on August 19, 2015, 09:02:14 pm
So much <confused> but that's sweeeeeeeeeet Kreygasm Kreygasm Kreygasm Kreygasm Kreygasm.
Title: Re: Idea: video/audio capture from edge connector
Post by: f_symbols on August 19, 2015, 11:35:22 pm
Wow, that image quality in picture 6 is epic <gasp> , great job. This is probably exactly how <Billy> did it. Kappa
Title: Re: Idea: video/audio capture from edge connector
Post by: YesAffinity on August 30, 2015, 07:12:35 pm
Well, a quick update here, on the state of this project. The output from the jrok board is apparently something that current gen capture devices aren't too keen on. I bought two different devices, one a low-cost composite and s-video usb capture "stick", and the other a more pricey component/composite/s-video "gaming" capture device. Both of them get an image, but the results are not great and nothing I could ever stream.
I talked to jrok, and he recommended an old sabrent PCI capture card, which he is certain will work with the output from the encoder. So, I bought one off ebay, and got it last week. The problem is, it doesn't work on any OS newer than XP. :( So, just put together an XP dual boot with my current gen computer, you say? Well, that was my idea too, but it turned out to be much more difficult than one would think. My current gen computer won't even boot the xp install disk. I finally got the computer which I've been using as the family file server (archive storage of important pictures, docs, etc.) to the point that it boots XP, and XP is fully updated. The only problem: it doesn't have a PCI slot. So, I had to dig around on ebay until I found a motherboard with the same chipset that has a PCI slot. This particular chipset was apparently the absolute low budget option at the time, cuz all of the mobos I could find are all micro atx with very few bells or whistles. But, I found one, ordered it, and next weekend (thankfully a holiday weekend), I will swap the mobo, screw around with windows xp some more to get it to work on the new mobo, and then work on capturing on that computer, and streaming to my Windows 7 computer via VLC, because of course, OBS does not work on Windows XP, so it couldn't just be as simple as that.
Another parallel path I'm running is acquiring an old Happauge WinTV PVR USB2. This device worked with the capture setup I had going on my street fighter cabinet a few years back. Granted, that setup used a different encoder, but I figure it's probably worth a shot. I owned a WinTV PVR, and was actually trying to use it in the early stages of this project, but couldn't get the software that supports Windows 7 to install. You need the original installation disk that came with the device, and I couldn't find it anywhere. Sadly enough, I took it to the last local electronics recycling drive, about a month ago. As I was digging through drawers trying to find parts to make XP work on the family file server, guess what I found? You guessed it: the original Happauge installation disk. So, again back to ebay, and there are two WinTV PVR USB2's for auction. Dirt cheap, too. But, as you would probably guess, they don't come with cables or the original power supply. And yes, you guessed right again, when I scrapped the previous WinTV PVR that I owned, the power supply went with it. So, I e-mailed Happauge, and lo and behold, they actually still sell replacement power supplies. So, one of those is on order, too.
This project is probably going to be the death of me. If neither of these paths produce a workable stream direct from my cab, then my only other option is to wait for jrok to test current gen capture devices, and make a recommendation...which he said he would do, but who knows how long that will take. :'(
Hopefully, I will be updating this with some good news next week.
Title: Re: Idea: video/audio capture from edge connector
Post by: YesAffinity on September 03, 2015, 06:45:48 pm
Title: Re: Idea: video/audio capture from edge connector
Post by: ChrisP on September 03, 2015, 08:42:48 pm
Oh my god, it's beautiful! BibleThump
It could use a little more brightness, but I love it. The direct audio feed also goes to show that the analog sounds in MAME are still far from perfect.
Kinda makes you wonder why <Billy>'s direct feed world records (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbRN549NYuU) had no audio. Because geez, if those were, in reality, just stitched-together MAME runs (heaven forbid!), the audio would have been a dead giveaway...
Title: Re: Idea: video/audio capture from edge connector
Post by: YesAffinity on September 04, 2015, 03:08:59 am
Thanks, guys! Couldn't have done it without the support and encouragement of the forums, and of course shouts go out to jrok and Mike's arcade for the great service and support they offered.
Yeah, the video and audio needs to be tweaked a bit. Audio is sampling at 384k, which I'm speculating is why the direct-feed audio (via USB capture) is "hiccup'ing" every so often.
Now, if I could find a component capture device that will accept the encoder's video output, we'll really be cooking. But, just getting to this point was a long enough road. I'm going to enjoy the destination for a bit, before endeavoring on a new path. ;D
Title: Re: Idea: video/audio capture from edge connector
Post by: tilt on September 04, 2015, 04:57:04 am
Holy fuck, I love it Kreygasm Kreygasm . I honestly want this setup sooooo bad, fkin awesome. Some of these have already been said, but here are my suggestions: - enable deinterlacing in xsplit, or feed the video through amarec which has a fantastic deinterlacing algorithm for old game. - Use the built in xsplit adjustments to get the colors closer to mame, or your monitor, depending how you want it to look.
I really love this idea, and I cant wait to see some schematics so I can make it happen too <stirpot>
Title: Re: Idea: video/audio capture from edge connector
Post by: YesAffinity on September 04, 2015, 01:04:24 pm
Thanks for the suggestions, tilt. I am using OBS. I think I need to tweak blue, cuz the L=xx especially is pretty blurry, and white things have a blue tint to them. I think blue is too high on either the MA inverter board, the jrok encoder or both. I can adjust brightness, sharpness and other typical "monitor" settings within the Happauge WinTV PVR USB2 that I'm using to capture, and initially tinkering around with brightness within these settings made a good improvement. There's definitely a few things that need to be tweaked. I also reduced the audio sample rate to 44.1kHz/192kbits/s and the sound hiccups are now gone. I think I need to reduce the capture resolution within the WinTV PVR, too, cuz the video is slightly glitchy (deinterlacing aside). Reducing the resolution within the WinTV PVR will reduce the bandwidth required of the USB connection, and I think will eliminate the slight video glitchiness. I'll let VLC do all the upscaling, since my PC's got plenty of horsepower for that. I will try OBS's deinterlacing once I get these other things ironed out.
Schematics are coming soon, I hope to get a good baseline "how to" put together and posted this weekend.
Title: Re: Idea: video/audio capture from edge connector
Post by: YesAffinity on November 03, 2015, 08:12:12 pm
Realizing this thread was left kinda open-ended, for anyone who has read this far and is interested in learning more, go here:
DK Direct Feed How-To - https://donkeykongforum.net/index.php?topic=1413.0 (https://donkeykongforum.net/index.php?topic=1413.0)