Donkey Kong Forum
General Donkey Kong Discussion => The Kong Off => Topic started by: Milehighdt on September 30, 2014, 10:02:58 pm
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With all the great scores now and to come before KO4 how hard is it going to be to get one of the top 10 spots. Is TG going to start accepting scores or will Richie use the DKF's HSL. Let me know what you think.
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I think Richie is leaning towards the DKF list just because of the short period of time we might have to submit scores before KO4. Im guessing the cutoff point may be just under 1.1. It just depends on who can put enough time in on a cab to get that score. If Dean or Wes could get on a machine and put up a score over 1.1 that would change a lot. And don't forget players like Corey who are constantly pushing for 1.1. I think the next few months will be interesting to see how the top ten turns out. Last year the cutoff was 1.025 and about a year after its already getting to be 75k higher which is insane.
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It will be 1.1 million. Don't forget that Mitchell, and Wiebe who are not 1.1 million players will be getting their own machine. This means there will be two less dedicated machines, and most likely that will result in a higher bar to hurdle. This year I am ok with them getting in because Mitchell has an unofficial 1.125 million score, and Wiebe is competitive. Having said that I want both to raise their scores by the 2016 tournament or they probably shouldn't have a dedicated. I just think 10 or 12 machines is too small to give away machines like that. If they have 20 machines by 2016, than yeah let them in.
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Yea kinda weird, because Dean has a 1.079, which would not make top 10, but you would think he automatically gets a dedicated cab, like Billy and Steve do...so that leaves 7 spots.
Mr. Wolfe's 1.103 would technically be the cutoff score as it stands now.
Some players with huge scores currently (Wiltshire, Dave, etc) would need to put up a bigger score to make top 10.
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I think there was some talk a while back from Richie that the HSL here is what will be used as TG still isn't accepting scores. Plus he alluded that MAME scores also count for the "dedicated" cabs. Steve and Billy are locks for a cab simply for the "star power" aspect. I didn't hear about Billy having a 1.125 anywhere either but I completely agree you need to have some "celebrity" power there and those guys are it even if its just because KoK. If MAME isn't a variable then Dean will not be on a dedicated cab as of right now but he will certainly be qualified for the WC division.
It's looking like 1.1 will be the cutoff at this point. Gotta remember also its who will be attending as well. Will Jeff W want to compete again? Is everyone who is in the top 10 want to compete?
Yea kinda weird, because Dean has a 1.079, which would not make top 10, but you would think he automatically gets a dedicated cab, like Billy and Steve do...so that leaves 7 spots.
Mr. Wolfe's 1.103 would technically be the cutoff score as it stands now.
Some players with huge scores currently (Wiltshire, Dave, etc) would need to put up a bigger score to make top 10.
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Know before reading this I am obviously going to be biased. My personal opinion is that while there is some fair room for distinction between MAME and Arcade scores (they are obviously radically different platforms and conditions to play under), Jeff has won the last two Kong Offs as a dedicated MAME player. Given Dean's accomplishments as well, I'm not sure how fair it would be to segregate the MAME players out of what Kong Off recognizes as the HSL.
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It's been debated a few times before. I understand both sides. If people want a "dedicated arcade cabinet" at the KO then they can put up a score on a dedicated arcade cabinet and not MAME. I can see where Richie is coming from there. On the quality of the player its almost a 1-1 with just a slight learning curve on the control panel and physical requirements of sitting at a cabinet of a certain size. The game itself is 100% the same.
Know before reading this I am obviously going to be biased. My personal opinion is that while there is some fair room for distinction between MAME and Arcade scores (they are obviously radically different platforms and conditions to play under), Jeff has won the last two Kong Offs as a dedicated MAME player. Given Dean's accomplishments as well, I'm not sure how fair it would be to segregate the MAME players out of what Kong Off recognizes as the HSL.
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I think that Richie said the top ten who gets dedicated cabs would be arcade only as thats just how its always been decided. The wild cards will be chosen from the DKO where MAME scores are accepted. Those who earn a wild card spot will be on a dedicated cab anyways, so there is a chance for anyone who plays MAME or arcade to have an equal chance at a dedicated machine for the first couple of days.
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Right and from the WC events who is going that is also not a Top 10 player? I would hope we could maybe do a 2:1 team up on the wildcard machines the first day at least give a few more people a chance but its all good.
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the billy mitchel score of 1.12 was a rumour or a claimed recording unless someone else has any info .
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Does the DK Open even mean anything anymore for KO4? I know I'm out the top 10 now on DKF scoreboard, but I'm still the #1 seed on DKO (which is a test of scoring under tournament pressure) if that was a qualifier.
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You're still top 10 arcade, whereas I'm not even close. I think from that perspective you have a machine by default and I'm #1 DKO seed (since the three players above me including yourself all are top 10 arcade and will have machines). I will try to clarify further with Richie when I arrive in NJ in a few days.
I wish the qualification system was more thoroughly ironed out because it's hard for up and comers to really know what to shoot for ...
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Get somewhere between 1,135,xxx and 1,141,xxx and you'll probably be okay (maybe).
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The DKO's are for the Wildcard machines Dave so you will at least have a dedicated wildcard machine based on the current score you have. Figure about 6 wildcards maybe more?
Dan
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The DKO's are for the Wildcard machines
I must have missed something. So is it "official" that they are sticking to the original KO format of score-chasing...10 dedicateds and wildcard machines decided through the DKOs?
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you will at least have a dedicated wildcard machine based on the current score you have
"Dedicated-Wildcard machine" seems like a DK oxymoron :D
Wildcard machine usually means you're sharing the time, and dedicated is what it is.
So, I'm confused now, I never was playing DKO for wildcard position.
I thought the DKO were going to lead into a single/double elimination head-to-head bracket (which I was against), but from there I never read anything. I like the traditional format of dedicated machines and some wildcards. So, if the requirement is leaning towards top 10 arcade (minus 2 because billy and Steve) based on DKF scores (which is then really top 8 ), then that gives a baseline of 1,100,700 (Steve W) as a score to shoot for.
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Richie posted a video with Dean and Hank talking about his ideas. Nothing is set in stone yet. Basically the DKF list is the list sans Billy and Steve. Top 10 from this get "competitor" status.
Then the DKO's will be used for the remaining "wildcard" machines. The goal at least for now is not to "share" the playing time.
Friday and Saturday its high score only. That has "prizes" as well.
Then the Top 8 from those 2 days play on Sunday for the Bracket challenge champion. So its like 2 tournaments in one.
At least this is how I interpreted what has been said so far.
Dan
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Dan's interpretation is correct. My understanding of the current plan this time around is there will be no "shared" machines, which might lead to fewer competitors but will also lead to higher quality games.
Edit: Also, Steve's 1,100,700 score has not been officially submitted. I don't know if he's planning on submitting this, but officially I am #9 and Dave is still #10. I assume Steve will submit this score before KO4.
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Guess I'll have to see that video, had no idea about that. Any links to the video?
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Guess I'll have to see that video, had no idea about that. Any links to the video?
Here you go, Dave:
Kong Off 4 Update (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QT3YrCD2iyk)
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Thanks Scott...good info, but yeah, they need to clarify MAME or NOT for top 10, sounds like he said arcade only.
Only complaint I have on the format is, high score Saturday is really the KO4 winner in my book, tournament is a fun thing, but anything can happen head to head. SO to have the climax be the top 8 tournament, and that decide KO4 winner is new but I';m still true to the highest score of the weekend wins.
I'm not sure of the exact date in March yet, and I'm still up in the air about making it or now, but get all the info down does help.
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Yah I see where you are coming from Dave. With such a random game like DK head to head is going to be more luck than anything else where the 2 day format really is a little luck but more skill involved.
The brackets will provide some excitement but when pretty much everyone is a KS caliber player it simply takes luck to make it out of that bracket as the winner. Even if its Jeff W again and he wins both the score and the bracket I'm sure he will agree the bracket will boil down to getting lucky.
Its completely different then other games that require skill like the SF IV Tournaments and even those are like double+ elimination and its solely your skill against their skill not your luck against his luck. Still it will give the spectators something to watch and root for so hurrah! I think its 2 different prize pools too one for overall and one for brackets so that is cool :)
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Update from Richie:
Jeff Harrist will be asked to submit the top 10. This can include both arcade and MAME scores, but will be at Jeff's discretion.
Eric and John will be asked for a list of X number of wildcard qualifiers. Not sure what X number is yet.
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Jeff Harrist will be asked to submit the top 10.
Glad I'm not Jeff. With Wiebe and Mitchell out of the top 10, I'm sure it will be like the abortion issue.
And yes, Dean and I discussed the format with Richie during the last DK Open. There will be "wildcard" machines, but they are dedicated ones. So no matter how you qualify (wildcard or top 10) you are on equal footing. This means less people can compete, but it will be much more fair for everyone.
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Wiebe and Mitchell are in regardless Hank. You know this :D
Its 10 dedicated + Wiebe/Mitchell hence the Top 10 here get to go. Course it sounds like MAME is in versus last time so now I really do have to be Wes's score. Damn you all.... Kappa
Dan
Jeff Harrist will be asked to submit the top 10.
Glad I'm not Jeff. With Wiebe and Mitchell out of the top 10, I'm sure it will be like the abortion issue.
And yes, Dean and I discussed the format with Richie during the last DK Open. There will be "wildcard" machines, but they are dedicated ones. So no matter how you qualify (wildcard or top 10) you are on equal footing. This means less people can compete, but it will be much more fair for everyone.
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Update from Richie:
Jeff Harrist will be asked to submit the top 10. This can include both arcade and MAME scores, but will be at Jeff's discretion.
Eric and John will be asked for a list of X number of wildcard qualifiers. Not sure what X number is yet.
How much can we bribe the organizers to put <Tim> on a dedicated machine?
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10 dedicated plus DKO qualifier dedicated. A good score in DKO will also guarantee a spot
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Jeff Harrist will be asked to submit the top 10.
Glad I'm not Jeff. With Wiebe and Mitchell out of the top 10, I'm sure it will be like the abortion issue.
I just spoke with Richie and he confirmed that Wiebe and Mitchell will have their own machines exclusive of the top 10 from DKF. So think of it as a top 12 with Wiebe and Mitchell already in.
My inclination is to use the top 10 scores just as it is listed at the top of the page.
Thoughts?
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My inclination is to use the top 10 scores just as it is listed at the top of the page.
Thoughts?
I agree with that decision inclination.
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I'd be for the top 10 across both platforms as well (i.e. as seen on top of the DKF landing page). Just my 2 cents.
Thanks for getting the info, Wes. I think Richie giving Jeff (basically, the DKF community) the call is a good decision.
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Absolutely concur Jeff Top 10 at the top of the page is the perfect way to do it. Then just work the way down the HSL if anyone in that Top 10 is not planning on attending.
Jeff Harrist will be asked to submit the top 10.
Glad I'm not Jeff. With Wiebe and Mitchell out of the top 10, I'm sure it will be like the abortion issue.
I just spoke with Richie and he confirmed that Wiebe and Mitchell will have their own machines exclusive of the top 10 from DKF. So think of it as a top 12 with Wiebe and Mitchell already in.
My inclination is to use the top 10 scores just as it is listed at the top of the page.
Thoughts?
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My inclination is to use the top 10 scores just as it is listed at the top of the page.
Thoughts?
I agree with that decision inclination.
Agreed!
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Update from Richie:
Jeff Harrist will be asked to submit the top 10. This can include both arcade and MAME scores, but will be at Jeff's discretion.
Eric and John will be asked for a list of X number of wildcard qualifiers. Not sure what X number is yet.
Any word yet on what X might be? Or at least the minimum X as of now?
Would be nice to know going into the final DKO.
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I think the more pressing matter at this point is actually getting a date for the thing!
March is 10 weeks away...
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Any word yet on what X might be? Or at least the minimum X as of now?
Would be nice to know going into the final DKO.
If I were not in top 10 and wanted to be a sure lock for a machine, I would aim to hit 1m flat during DKO6. 970k will probably do it, but 1m during DKO6 is a sure lock. Dave is the #1 seed right now, and with Corey saying he will not attend KO4 that means Eric is the #2 seed with 968k.
Edit: A current list of top 10 DKO seeds. I would not guarantee there would be 10 seeds. Top 10 + Billy + Steve is twelve machines. Don't take my word for it, but I can't imagine Richie having more than five or six "seeded" machines for DKO scorers.
Robbie Lakeman: 1,108,500
Dean Saglio: 1,103,700
#1: Dave McCrary: 1,091,400
Ross Benziger: 1,067,700
Wes Copeland: 1,045,200
Corey Chambers: 1,029,100 (says he will not attend)
Steve Wiltshire: 1,021,600
#2: Eric Tessler: 968,700
#3: Mike Groesbeck: 953,800
#4: <Tim>: 941,500
#5: Chris Psaros: 925,600
#6: Ben Falls: 913,400
#7: Jon McCourt: 912,500
#8: Jason Wade: 908,000
#9: Jry: 905,700
Jeff Willms: 894,400
#10: Martin Laing: 894,100
I think the more pressing matter at this point is actually getting a date for the thing!
March is 10 weeks away...
Yer I am wondering if the event itself will be delayed. Advance notice is needed for people to arrange travel plans. Maybe someone should call Richie?
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No dates for BotA or Kong Off BibleThump
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Speculation is fun!
Current Overall Top 10
[noembed]
Rank | | Score | | Player | | Date | |
1 | | 1,206,800 | | Dean Saglio | | 10/04/2013 | |
2 | | 1,144,800 | | Robbie Lakeman | | 12/01/2014 | |
3 | | 1,138,600 | | Hank Chien | | 11/01/2012 | |
4 | | 1,137,500 | | Mark Kiehl | | 09/23/2014 | |
5 | | 1,136,500 | | Ross Benziger | | 09/26/2013 | |
6 | | 1,135,900 | | Vincent Lemay | | 01/11/2013 | |
7 | | 1,107,600 | | Jeff Willms | | 08/15/2011 | |
8 | | 1,103,700 | | Jeff Wolfe | | 10/30/2013 | |
9 | | 1,100,700 | | Steve Wiltshire | | 07/28/2014 | |
10 | | 1,099,500 | | Wes Copeland | | 09/30/2014 | |
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Hank Chien and Mark Kiehl are the only two of the top 10 to not put up a score during the DKOs. <mad>
Automatic Bids
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Rank | | Score | | Player | |
1 | | 1,064,500 | | <Wiebe> | |
2 | | 1,062,800 | | <Billy> | |
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Taking out the top players from the DKO standings we have the following:
Top 10 DKO Seeds
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Rank | | Score | | Player | | DKO | |
1 | | 1,091,400 | | Dave McCrary | | DKO #1 | |
2 | | 1,047,600 | | Phil Tudose | | DKO #6 | |
3 | | 1,041,100 | | Ethan Daniels | | DKO #6 | |
4 | | 1,029,100 | | Corey Chambers | | DKO #4 | |
5 | | 972,100 | | Jason Wade | | DKO #6 | |
6 | | 968,700 | | Eric Tessler | | DKO #2 | |
7 | | 953,800 | | Mike Groesbeck | | DKO #1 | |
8 | | 948,400 | | Mick Winzeler | | DKO #6 | |
9 | | 946,900 | | Andrew Gardikis | | DKO #6 | |
10 | | 941,500 | | <Tim> | | DKO #2 | |
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And we all know plans change and some people won't be attending KO4, so what the hell:
Next 10 DKO Seeds
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Rank | | Score | | Player | | DKO | |
1 | | 925,600 | | Chris Psaros | | DKO #4 | |
2 | | 913,400 | | Ben Falls | | DKO #1 | |
3 | | 912,500 | | Jonathan McCourt | | DKO #5 | |
4 | | 905,700 | | Jeremy Young | | DKO #1 | |
5 | | 904,400 | | Martin Laing | | DKO #6 | |
6 | | 891,500 | | Jason Brittain | | DKO #6 | |
7 | | 887,100 | | Daniel Desjardins | | DKO #6 | |
8 | | 880,700 | | Adam Mon | | DKO #1 | |
9 | | 868,900 | | Jeff Harrist | | DKO #2 | |
10 | | 834,100 | | Mike Kasper | | DKO #4 | |
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So it's still unknown as to whether just top 10 overall or top 10 DKO will be in the Kong Off? There were...7 players in the overall top 10 that were in the aggregate top 10 DKOpens, I think?
There should be a tournament to decide who plays in the Kong Off with the top 10 overall and the top 10 in the DK Open. However, I think most of the top 10 overall are in the top 10 aggregate in the DKO...Still probably like 14 players competing for 10 spots sounds cool.
I've never been to a Kong Off, but isn't there usually an extra cab available?
I mean, top 10 overall probably makes the most sense, but I feel like if the DKO was for some sort of DK placement, top 10 should count for something.
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I don't think anything has been finalized yet...except maybe that Richie wants JC to determine the overall top 10 and that Billy and Steve will always have a machine. How the DKOs will be factored in is a mystery, so my post above was just a way of outlining how the standings currently look if you remove the overall top 10 from the DKO standings. The "Next 10" is just a way of expanding the list in case of the inevitable no-shows. Really, I just like lists...that's the main point. ;D
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Know before reading this I am obviously going to be biased. My personal opinion is that while there is some fair room for distinction between MAME and Arcade scores (they are obviously radically different platforms and conditions to play under), Jeff has won the last two Kong Offs as a dedicated MAME player. Given Dean's accomplishments as well, I'm not sure how fair it would be to segregate the MAME players out of what Kong Off recognizes as the HSL.
Just thought I'd chime in on this point. I definitely agree here. I also feel like not everyone can own a DK machine for a variety of reasons, and it seems even more unfair that the players who don't own their own cabinets basically couldn't qualify for the Kong Off because of this.
...Should just have the players with cabinets play from their homes, and let the MAME players play on the dedicated cabs. haha