Donkey Kong High Score List General Discussion

[gstrain]

You can add me to the list if you want.

George Strain - MARP - 329,300 - March 23rd, 2013.

I actually beat this score Thursday night on a real cab at the Joystick Gamebar in Atlanta scoring 383,700, but don't have any evidence other than a photo.  I was pretty pleased with the game as it was the first time I'd played a game since March and I don't like the particular joystick they have on the machine at all (on my first game I didn't get past 1-2 and I think my score progression for my 4-5 games as I got used to the joystick was something like 14K, 60K, 170K, 383K).

One other correction to the list.  Neil Chapman has a score of 718,700 at MARP which is higher than the 431,300 you have for him from TG.  Neil is zylquin on MARP.

-George

[corey.chambers]

George, I can add you and make the adjustments later this evening.

If I understand it correctly, a virtual machine on Linux that allows you to run files as if the computer were running XP, and if you are using WolfMAME .106 on it, then I don't see why this would not be acceptable on the High Score List.

Presently other emulators or other versions of WolfMAME are not acceptable for the High Score List. I am not an expert in all MAME emulators, so I can't make informed decisions about whether a particular emulator allows adjustments to the emulation speed, etc. Even if a list of other emulators and versions could be verified and proven to be comparable to WolfMAME .106, I want to encourage everyone to use WolfMAME .106 because it is the only officially acceptable version of MAME by TwinGalaxies, and I want to encourage everyone to Play and Record every time so that they may be able to submit their scores to TwinGalaxies. Most players already aspire to this end, and for others it is as easy as a simple download. I have included the links and a video to assist in the set up process.

What scores are said to be from other emulators? I was unaware of this. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. I can see that the score for Ben Jos Walbeehm which is listed on MARP is not WolfMAME .106, but I also see that it was accepted by TG in 2001. If a non-WolfMAME .106 score was acceptable to TG at an earlier date, then this score is not so much on the list because it is from a different emulator, but because the score has been verified and accepted by TG. Therefore it is allowed on this list. I suppose an argument could be made to accept those that once were accepted by TG, but for now if a score has been accepted by TG, WolfMAME .106 or not, they are said to be grandfathered onto the list. This is held because TG takes precedence. The High Score List is not in competition with or a replacement of the Officially accepted International ScoreBoard.

[gstrain]

If I understand it correctly, a virtual machine on Linux that allows you to run files as if the computer were running XP, and if you are using WolfMAME .106 on it, then I don't see why this would not be acceptable on the High Score List.

There were really two separate questions regarding Linux that SQUIIDUX had.  One was using a virtual machine of XP and the other was using WINE which is a compatibility layer that lets you run many Windows programs under Linux.    They're both slightly different and raise different technical issues, but my vote would be to allow them.

Presently other emulators or other versions of WolfMAME are not acceptable for the High Score List. I am not an expert in all MAME emulators, so I can't make informed decisions about whether a particular emulator allows adjustments to the emulation speed, etc. Even if a list of other emulators and versions could be verified and proven to be comparable to WolfMAME .106, I want to encourage everyone to use WolfMAME .106 because it is the only officially acceptable version of MAME by TwinGalaxies, and I want to encourage everyone to Play and Record every time so that they may be able to submit their scores to TwinGalaxies. Most players already aspire to this end, and for others it is as easy as a simple download. I have included the links and a video to assist in the set up process.

All versions of WolfMAME have similar protections against pausing and append recording, and store similar information about the recorded speed.  WolfMAME was written and is maintained by a MARP editor, and TG has just "piggybacked" on it.  The main reason TG still uses .106 is a lack of initiative and direction on their part to move to something newer, not any sort of intrinsic improved security offered by .106.  Using newer versions of MAME allows you to enjoy all the effort MAMEdev has put into MAME in the last 7 years since .106 came out and lets you use a version where if you find issues you can actually provide useful feedback and debug information to the MAMEdev team they can use to improve MAME going forward.  In addition WolfMAME .106 is technically in violation of the MAME license since not all source code was released for it, so you're encouraging violation of the MAME license agreement by encouraging its continued use. 

What scores are said to be from other emulators? I was unaware of this. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

Previously TG accepted other versions of MAME.  In fact if you look far enough back, TG accepted ANY version of MAME  and would also just copy scores off of MARP that had the description "TG" on them (and sometimes even when they didn't and the player didn't even intend to submit the score to TG).

You can easily find some scores you have listed as TG that were not done with Wolf .106 by comparing the scores to the MARP scoreboard and looking for the same scores by the same players and noting the MAME version.  Here are some, there are likely others:

904,100 - Ben Jos Walbeehm - MAME version m35tg3b
789,700 - Allen Edwards - MAME version wolf82
420,500 - Don Hayes - MAME version wolf101

-George

[Monstabonza]

Corey could you please bump me a few positions up the list:)
Got 379800 yesterday
http://www.twitch.tv/monstabonza/c/2393486
Thanks mate

[corey.chambers]

A great thank you goes out to Chris and George for their helpful insights. Remember, all, I simply manage a list, I am not an expert in MAME programs or the history of TwinGalaxies or MARP. I rely on all of you for this information.

It was my intent at the beginning to only allow WolfMAME .106, which is why the criteria has always stated "the only officially approved Arcade emulator of TwinGalaxies". This was an implicit statement that WolfMAME .106 was the only accepted emulator/version, etc. However, 2 days ago a score was submitted by Rick that was done on WolfMAME .101. At that time I asked a question on the thread if any one knew the differences between .106 and .101. There was no response. So I had to just continue with what I was doing. It was at this time that I made sure that the criteria was clearer and more explicit about what I meant. What I assumed other people understood as well.

I am reminded today that some people may never submit to TwinGalaxies, and for them this list becomes the "place to go" for their high scores. I understood this when I created the list, seeing a real need for the non-TG people. I wanted a list that was supportive, quickly updated, and free. So far this list has served that need.  At every turn I have listened to the community and learned through this process and I thank everyone for their patience and insight.

If all versions of WolfMAME disallow pausing during recording, and doesn't allow anything but 100% game emulation, then I agree that all versions of WolfMAME should be acceptable. I will be making the changes to the wording in the criteria to reflect this acceptance. I will also be updating Rick's score, as well as those others that have been mentioned. This will be done this evening. Thanks again everyone! Keep the ideas coming.

[ChrisP]

No problem, you're still rockin' it.

[gstrain]

No problem, you're still rockin' it.

Agreed 100%!  Thanks for all your work on the list Corey, it's a great contribution to the DK community!

-George

[corey.chambers]

Thanks, guys. Feel free to make suggestions at any time. All adjustments, updates, and additions have been uploaded. Great job everyone! Good game last night, Nick.

[corey.chambers]

SQUIIDUX, I am the one who manages the High Score List, and some of us have been discussing a similar issue on that thread as well. Presently, ANY version of WolfMAME is acceptable. Many seem to support this requirement because version .106 is the only acceptable version for TG, and apparently the WolfMAME program was created by MARP. Other than the pausing issue why recording an INP, and ensuring 100% emulation speed, I am not aware of any other advantages that other MAME programs may have. I am sure TG has done their research and choose WolfMAME for a reason. I am not sure if showing the fps/speed % is the same thing as emulation speed. Before I was using WolfMAME, I used a different emulator that allowed the emulation speed to be more or less than normal all the way to 0% and all the way to 200% at 1% increments. I don't think the fps/speed % would demonstrate this functionality. I suppose that we, as a community, could evaluate a proposed version of MAME such as sdlmame, and approve or not approve it as acceptable. How does anyone feel about that proposal? I hear you loud and clear SQUIIDUX. If there is no reason to disallow a particular MAME program then why disallow it. Maybe someone much more knowledgable than myself could make a case for WolfMAME only.

[xelnia]

Just had a GREAT game! New personal best of 415,400. Link to Twitch highlight is below and I've attached the WolfMAME 106 INP. Thanks to everyone who watched!

415,400

[corey.chambers]

Great job, Jeremy! You moved way up the list. Also, thanks for the zip folder attachment. I really like being able to link it to INP for the source of your game. I added this procedure to the normative and auxiliary rules. "(If you are using MAME then also attach a zip folder to your post containing the inp and wlf files.)" This is more of an option at this point but I think it would be great if we were in the habit of doing it.

[syscrusher]

I think Hank brought this up before, but Tongki Linderman in 87th place and Jimmy Linderman in 23rd place are the same person.

[Monstabonza]

Nice work mate, guess I drop a place
Keep up the good work

Just had a GREAT game! New personal best of 415,400. Link to Twitch highlight is below and I've attached the WolfMAME 106 INP. Thanks to everyone who watched!

415,400

[ChrisP]

It's so nuts that in 2009 cracking 700K would put you in the top 10, whereas in 2013 it isn't even top 50.

And by the end of this year, 1-20 will all be a million-plus!

[stella_blue]

Just had a GREAT game! New personal best of 415,400. Link to Twitch highlight is below and I've attached the WolfMAME 106 INP. Thanks to everyone who watched!

415,400

Hold on, let's take a step back and do a quick recap:

		Personal		Increase		Increase
Date		Best		(Points)		(Percent)
04/08/13		213,800
05/13/13		227,600		13,800		6.5%
05/24/13		244,900		17,300		7.6%
05/31/13		281,600		36,700		15.0%
06/09/13		415,400		133,800		47.5%

This is outstanding progress, Jeremy!  You're moving much too quickly for me, my friend.

Shall I put together the game summary now, or wait 4 hours for the next update?