Author Topic: Pole Position and how to get better  (Read 65578 times)

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Offline Fly

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Re: Pole Position and how to get better
« Reply #90 on: November 15, 2019, 08:35:58 am »
My wife is my biggest supporter and my harshest critic. She likes to yell "Don't embarrass me!" and "Don't suck"at gaming events or when I stream. And when I suck she yells "Typical!....YOU SUCK! I said don't embarrass me!" It's all in good fun. She knows I think it's funny. It's all good cuz she accepts what I do.

Keep up the grind and remember....DON'T SUCK!!

Hec
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Offline yamnitz

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Re: Pole Position and how to get better
« Reply #91 on: November 18, 2019, 11:12:17 am »


Starting to figure out how the passing cars thing works.  I believe it is predetermined at the beginning of the race.  I synced up a video where I pass 39 cars and 40 cars.  That top image is the 40 car race, the bottom is 39 cars. (this is the first turn of lap 1 in the main race)  You can see that white car is closer to me (therefore I pass it sooner)  than in the bottom picture.  That keeps increasing throughout the race.  The other cars are almost exactly in the same spot in both videos and don't really change, but that single white car keeps appearing sooner and sooner in the top race than in the bottom.  I'm sure cornering and if you touch the sides affects it, and speed of course because you have to get a 213.xx anyways.. but I've been trying to do things in qualifying that gets that front white car as close to my car as possible on that first turn.  So I've had races with 214.97 times that have passed 40 and if I had gone a second faster I believe I would have passed car 41 and maybe 42.. 43?   But as in my 67,160 video I ran a 213.97 and passed 39 almost 40 without the help of that white car being closer to me. 

So that has brought me to a crappy conclusion.  The 4 car pattern where they are 2 by 2 side by side might be the way to pass 142 cars...  unfortunately it is the hardest pattern in the game at least until they spread out a little bit.   Sometimes I get the (3 on the left 1 on the right) pattern really bunched close together but it seems very rare.  Just doing some thinking out loud.  John if you have any thoughts please chime in!   
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Offline johnmcallister

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Re: Pole Position and how to get better
« Reply #92 on: November 18, 2019, 06:14:11 pm »
I'm still working on your last race, I got all the times in.  And I just started to analyze when and how you pass cars.  So I've documented where and when you pass cars for you last race.  I'm going to do the same with another of your races and see if I can come up with anything. 

I did start to think more and more about this.  I went back and found 2 races of mine done with the no crash rom.  I found one where I count 140 cars, I go back and check again, 3 times I do it with different methods but yet the game says I passed 141.  The other one with about the same time I only pass 138 cars.  So I've been mapping those games out, will take another week or so.

I did notice while doing this that there is one car that you pass sooner and sooner each appearance of the group.  So as you know there is a 4 car grouping on the first lap and each additional lap they add one more car to that group.  Well when counting cars by group and you use the last car in the group to keep track of how many cars you pass you start to notice that the first car in the group is getting closer and closer to the last car in the group.  So we may have stumbled on this at the same time.

At some time I was looking really close at the cars and noticed that the cars being white and orange that they also have another color on them.  So there might be 2 or 3 versions of those cars meaning they have white with red or blue stripe and maybe even another color, I'll check on this more tonight.  And the first car that they add is I think Red but not sure, again have to check that out. 

Now the question is can you manipulate any of this, can you make the 1st or 2nd car that appear on the next lap appear in a certain lane or closer or further.  I did notice that if in the hairpin turn if you get ahead of all 4 cars you are going to pass more cars or that's my first impression at least. 

On other issues that I have started to notice but not might be anything.  On certain parts of the track the score will jump 10 points or 20 points depending on how you look at it.  Meaning usually it takes a certain amount of frames in order to score 10 or 20 points but at these points in the track you seem to score faster than normal.  It's almost like there is an error in the track and these usually appear in the turns and I notice them when you turn into the turn trying to get to the side, not always but this seems to be where it happens most often.  In my doings I've notice that you are also saving 1 frame here and there in some parts of the game, I can't really explain what I mean by this yet. 

Anyway something to try and don't have to get a good score or time to test this theory is to pass all cars on the right or the left and see what happens.  Meaning if you have to go off road or go to the outside of a turn to do it do it anyways.   Other thing to try to do is pass the last car in the group and or always try to be in the same lane coming up to the start/finish line.  This test will see if we can make the next car they are putting into the group after another lap is completed if we can manipulate it into a certain lane. 

Your hairpin turns are even better than they were just a week ago.
 
Losing 3-4 miles because you pass too close or hit the rumble strip only seems to add maybe 1-2 frames onto your time, this isn't confirmed yet.

It might be faster to hit the puddle on the big turn that it is to go on the outside, not 100% sure on this yet but I got good reason to think it's true.

I think this is true and confirmed as I've had 2 instances of it but not sure what the true place is.  If you get along side a car at the finish it counts as passing it, not sure if it is any part, middle, or ahead but it seems that passing the wheel is good enough. 

That's all that I have today :)
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Offline yamnitz

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Re: Pole Position and how to get better
« Reply #93 on: November 23, 2019, 12:43:04 pm »
Really curious to see what you come up analyzing those races!  Great info in your last post!

I did try to pass all on the right, but obviously kept running into the centipede sign in the hairpin, I tried all left and I didn't notice any difference really in where cars appeared or how they moved overall.   I don't notice differences from crossing the finish line on different sides either.  Just the usual randomness.  I'm starting to think it has something to do with the corners, I know in the hairpin depending on how I cut the corner and when I end up on the right I get a different line up at the 2nd puddle depending on if I touch the yellow line immediately after the hairpin on the right, or if I just stay on the road after the hairpin. (not the rumble strip just the yellow)  and it's a better pattern touching it.  If I don't touch it all the cars but one are on the right (inside)  If I do, they are right,left, right, left..  It is predictable about 80% of the time. 

I ran a really weird one the other day.  The cars were SUPER early.  The pic is at the exact score/time place on the track as the other 2 pics, but that white car on the left is the front car of the pack on the first turn.  I ended up with a sad 215.53 but passed 40 cars, for a super rare 66,810. 

Unfortunately I can't duplicate how close or far the first car is with any reliability at all.  Always look forward to your insights and ideas John! 




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Offline johnmcallister

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Re: Pole Position and how to get better
« Reply #94 on: November 27, 2019, 03:30:43 pm »
Hey anyone need some Namco Pole Position boards repaired, I've got 4 set's I'm working on right now so now is a good time to get your boards fixed.  Cost is probably around 100-200 depending on condition and extent of fixing.
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Offline yamnitz

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Re: Pole Position and how to get better
« Reply #95 on: December 02, 2019, 07:31:54 pm »
Hadn't played in a week and clicked off a 54.99 qualify lap tonight!  I'm pretty sure I'm not the first, but still pretty cool to see!



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Offline johnmcallister

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Re: Pole Position and how to get better
« Reply #96 on: December 03, 2019, 12:10:00 pm »
I would say that it is probably the first, I haven't even done it with no cars and no crash.  I'ts not something that can be done by someone that isn't playing to get the record that's for sure.   When you are playing for score you usually don't try so hard on the qualifying lap as you are saving it for the race.

I'm still working on the data of your 213 and 214 and I added in a 217 time just to see what is happening with the cars and why you can pass 136-143 cars with any of the above times.  Should have this done later this week, got busy "lazy" the last week.

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Offline yamnitz

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Re: Pole Position and how to get better
« Reply #97 on: December 03, 2019, 04:30:36 pm »
I'm still working on the data of your 213 and 214 and I added in a 217 time just to see what is happening with the cars and why you can pass 136-143 cars with any of the above times.  Should have this done later this week, got busy "lazy" the last week.

I'm really interested to see what you come up with!  Do you think it will end up as just an analysis of how the game works and how those particular races were scored, raced, etc... ?  Or will the data show places of the track where I"m losing time/gaining time etc.. and possibly how hitting the bricks in the corners can bring the cars closer/farther to you, etc..?   Either way, Can't wait!   
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Offline johnmcallister

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Re: Pole Position and how to get better
« Reply #98 on: December 04, 2019, 02:04:28 pm »
Well here is the spreadsheet that I have so far, just look at the last 3 races, some of the info before all that is and was random stuff from previous races.

Feel free to do anything you want to this spreadsheet to make it better.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/10wvZkRzJq6A_IXnIiKoSTCNfzBZp_ax-/view?usp=sharing
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Offline yamnitz

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Re: Pole Position and how to get better
« Reply #99 on: December 05, 2019, 08:18:06 am »
Well here is the spreadsheet that I have so far, just look at the last 3 races, some of the info before all that is and was random stuff from previous races.

Feel free to do anything you want to this spreadsheet to make it better.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/10wvZkRzJq6A_IXnIiKoSTCNfzBZp_ax-/view?usp=sharing

Wow!  Awesome work!!! That's a Ton of information, speed, time, cars passed, what side, location on track, etc.. so good!  I just started looking at it while  matching up areas in the race video.  Very cool to be able to see how much time I'm losing going outside a car vs. inside etc..  And it is odd the places where I seem to gain a screen,  I def. will have to spend some time and see if I can see any patterns as to why I pass the number of cars that I do.  I'm still convinced it all begins at the start of the race, but maybe there's something in the data that will show how/when/why the extra cars spawn.  Thanks for putting this together and posting it!!!
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Offline johnmcallister

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Re: Pole Position and how to get better
« Reply #100 on: December 07, 2019, 03:19:51 pm »
Did some more data entry of a different type.  Logged every car into position and time on track as it was passed.   Was wondering about the cars and why when you count them yourself you will come up with a different number than what the game says.   I was trying to figure out where that other car passed from comes from.  Still can't figure it out though but am guessing it comes from the pole 2 car, your in first and the car in second maybe gets counted sometimes????????

Found that the hairpin turn causes numbers to be skewed all over the place, causing a car that should be coming up soon to be way late or sometimes way early.   I haven't looked into it yet much, just only noticed and highlighted it. 

Had two charts going on paper and it made me think of some other stuff.  I wanted to know if any of the cars were faster or slower than others.  Don't know the answer to this yet. 

It also looks like maybe crossing the finish line causes cars to move around, this might be more about the new car being added though.  The new car gets added into the mix around 5500, add in 2,3,or 4 depending on lap.  This seems to push the cars that should be coming up next even further back. 

Some cars change lanes more often than others and some seem to not ever change lanes. 

I believe that the hairpin turn might have the most influence upon the cars, sooner, later, or changing lanes.   

I did 3 races 2 with passing 140 cars and times around 214, the 3rd race was for a time of 219 and passing 136 cars.  I still need to get in and look at the data to see if it's just a certain place on the track that the lead car will appear again whether you are fast or slow it might just always appear at a certain time.  I don't know what the real cause of passing cars is about, 5 seconds difference  and only 3-4 cars less has to mean something. 

I'm running out of ideas and thoughts on how this game functions and if it can be manipulated to produce more passed cars, any input and help would be helpful. 

Here is link to same sheet with updated info, see each car sheet.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1cVVtUDd7smoSX53Z6oY34msZvgeOEpdT



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Offline Barra

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Re: Pole Position and how to get better
« Reply #101 on: January 07, 2020, 02:24:02 am »
Found this in an old magazine online whilst laughing at some of the other scores
Not sure if new/relevant/helpful but thought I'd post anyway :)



Edit: Date listed as N/A on that pic, this one is from a different source:

« Last Edit: January 07, 2020, 02:38:22 am by Barra »
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Offline Bliss1083

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Re: Pole Position and how to get better
« Reply #102 on: January 09, 2020, 02:50:39 am »
curious if anyone can somewhat give a rough estimate what my high score for an official 4 lap race is on 3 lap settings? My local arcade has it on 3 and I have 50,100. Been trying to crack 50k for awhile now. I'm guessing relative to keeping up speed and passing cars at the same rate about 64k at least.
Donkey kong  arcade 867,000 kill screen
Donkey kong arcade 1-1 12,800 12,200 12,100 and 12,000
Donkey kong end of level 4 132k
working on my hello kitty island adventure skills
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Offline johnmcallister

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Re: Pole Position and how to get better
« Reply #103 on: January 09, 2020, 12:33:44 pm »
Thanks for the info Barra, it will come in handy in the future. 

Bliss, for a 4 lap official race your score should be around 65k with no crashes. 

Anyone want code for no cars on the track, or no crashing into cars, and if you want I can even burn them and send them in the mail for $10.  Only 1 rom needed per mod.

PM me with your address, version you have, you can tell by the chip either saying for version 1 103 and 104, or version 2 203 and 204.   If no labels then you can tell by the screen. 

Atari version 1 says    1982 Atari Inc
Atari version 2 says    Manufactured by Atari 1982

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Offline johnmcallister

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Re: Pole Position and how to get better
« Reply #104 on: March 18, 2020, 09:38:13 pm »
What would you do, had this happen a few times and it really ruins a race.

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