Author Topic: Pole Position and how to get better  (Read 65031 times)

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Offline homerwannabee

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Re: Pole Position and how to get better
« Reply #120 on: July 18, 2020, 07:37:44 pm »
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Offline yamnitz

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Re: Pole Position and how to get better
« Reply #121 on: July 27, 2020, 12:35:48 pm »
Getting closer..  Feel like I've been saying that forever but I Ran a 214.33 (30 time left) and passed...   141 CARS!  First time passing that many!  Still with the slow time my score was a less than stellar 67,060.  I know about the photograph from the 80's that shows 67,260 as the top score, (which would have had 141 cars) but here's probably the first video out there of passing 141 cars in Pole Position.  ..and the miracle car 142 was WAY down the track at the finish line...

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Offline colecomeister

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Re: Pole Position and how to get better
« Reply #122 on: July 27, 2020, 04:42:36 pm »
Awesome news Dan! Great to see the first PP video with 141 cars passed. Yes, hopefully the pieces are coming together for an epic PP run.

Keep on drivin'!
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Offline Mitch Mitchell

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Re: Pole Position and how to get better
« Reply #123 on: July 27, 2020, 09:16:19 pm »
Congrats man, very soon!
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Offline dimmu--borgir

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Re: Pole Position and how to get better
« Reply #124 on: May 20, 2021, 08:53:15 am »
Any News on this?
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Offline yamnitz

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Re: Pole Position and how to get better
« Reply #125 on: May 24, 2021, 09:11:28 pm »
Any News on this?

Been awhile, guess I should update! (with a really long wall of text)  I really lost interest over this past winter with the vid and all the crap going on, didn't play for many months. But...  Started playing again a few months ago.  I've pretty much figured out what it takes to get a 260 or *310.  It is all about the spacing of the starting pattern.  (meaning the spacing of the enemy cars the first time you come to them on the first lap of the main race)  That controls everything.. almost.  You still have to drive well enough to get a 213 time.

Ok, so there are places during attract mode you can coin up and ways to run the qualify lap to get certain 'patterns' of the first 4 enemy cars the majority of the time.  Meaning first car you come to is on the left, 2nd car in order is on the right, next 2 are on the left.
 Or the first 2 are side by side and the next 2 are also, etc...   (many possible patterns)  BUT!!!!  Now this is a BIG BUT.  There is no way I have found, after many thousands of games, to do anything that controls the spacing of the enemy cars at the beginning of the main race.  (meaning how far they are away from each other or you as you come to them)  After you come to and pass those cars the first time, the pattern is set, all you can do is drive bad and make them move further away from you down the track.  So you have to get lucky and get the spacing pattern where all the enemy cars are closer to you than normal. (so you pass more right before the finish line) THEN, ALSO drive perfect :D

Just some scoring info for those that don't know (A time of 213 and 142 cars is 67,310  a time of 213 and 141 cars is 67,260.  213 and 140 cars is 67,210.  Time of 214 and 141 is 67,060, 214 and 140 cars is 67,010, etc..  )

Here's a breakdown of the spacing of enemy cars I've had over the last few months on Lap 1, at the First Hairpin: 

1. The Best spacing (4 car pattern), you can get inside all 4 cars on the hairpin (VERY RARE, 141 possibly 142. I've never ran a 213 with that spacing, hard to get a good first lap time)
2. You cut inside 3 cars on the hairpin and the 4th is immediately on your left as you leave the hairpin (RARE, I've passed 141 many times getting this spacing pattern best time 214.03, surprise cars pop up early on blind curves) 
3. You cut inside 3 cars on the hairpin and the 4th is halfway to the puddle on the left. (SEMI RARE, I've also passed 141 cars sometimes but usually 140 cars. I have run 213 but only got 140)
4. Pass 3 or 2 cars on inside during the hairpin and the 4th car is at the puddle or past.  Just stop. 140 or more is impossible. 

All of this is noticable at the finish line of lap 1.  If you pass the 4th car in the group (red and white car) well before the finish line of lap 1 you're in good shape if you run good.  If you cross the finish line at the same time or after that car has crossed it, it's over.  Just another 66,9XX

Since these "Short Spacing" patterns are rare, it's really hard to have an idea how the enemy cars are going to behave later in the race on laps 2,3,4 in the tough spots (turn 1 and the hairpin)  So I'll have an amazing race going, hit the hairpin on lap 4 and boom there's a f'n car there, that in every other race is way farther down the track.  It's like practicing for the olympics but only randomly on every 10-15th time the hurdles are spaced right for you to get your fastest time.  Frustrating at times ha! 

I usually play 15-20 games at a session, sometimes I get the goods, most times not. (and I still crash more than I'll admit)  And you still have to drive the damn game perfect!  No brushing cars, no skidding (excpet when necessary) hug the yellow lines etc. But I know from my own races that I still have A LOT of room for improvement!  Oh, and a time of 212 is technically possible...  I've run the individual lap times to get it, L1 55.67, L2 51.98, L3 52.00, L4 52.71 +.50 = 212.86  Just not in the same race. 

The history of the high scores was looked into a year ago... as much as it can be anyways.  For those that don't know heres a little info.

All Print Guinness books from 1985, 1986, and 1987 say 67,260 is the WR.  In issue 7, Feb. 1990 Electronic Gaming Monthly Magazine printed the first ever mention of a score of 67,310.  In 1998 Twin Galaxies and Walter Day released a book "Official Video Game & Pinball Book of World Records"  As you might have guessed, one of it's sources was Electronic Gaming Monthly.  It prints that 67,310 is the WR. When the TG website went up they used the book to populate the high scores on their site. That's just a little background on the current *high score.

I have no idea if 310 happened or not, but I know 260 did and there is a time associated with it. And  I'm going to beat it.


TL;DR This game still rocks, I'm back playing, figured some new stuff out, hope to post new high scores soon! 









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Offline Fly

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Re: Pole Position and how to get better
« Reply #126 on: May 25, 2021, 05:11:37 am »
That's some damn good info. I'm glad dimmu borgir asked.
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Offline falcor781

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Re: Pole Position and how to get better
« Reply #127 on: August 25, 2021, 10:19:57 pm »
Thank you Dan, John, and others for putting together so much information! I joined DKF just to learn from you folks. A new bar arcade opened up recently nearby that has Pole Position and I've been putting time into it, recently getting a pair of 66010's. This really made me wonder what does it take to break through the next levels :).

My biggest issue (right now) is getting the same pattern where after the first turn, all 4 cars are clumped together. I get this pattern far more often than not, which is driving me bonkers. Assuming I've read the prior posts correctly (this is a big if), it feels like the start sequence of cars for the main race is still an open question.

In my own MAME experimentation, I tried to see if crossing the lap line at different times made a difference, and at different positions (crossing at the exact same lap time). I also tried coining up at different times. Nothing seemed to have any effect. I did seem to notice, though, that if I go through the first turn with high speed that seems to space the cars out more. It's possible I'm just seeing things, or perhaps it has to do with touching the yellow inside line as John had mentioned in an earlier post?

Also, is it possible that reloading save states in MAME doesn't restore the internal clock correctly, thus making experimentation that much harder?

Curious to hear everyone's thoughts!!

Happy driving and congrats to everyone for your amazing scores!




Any News on this?

Been awhile, guess I should update! (with a really long wall of text)  I really lost interest over this past winter with the vid and all the crap going on, didn't play for many months. But...  Started playing again a few months ago.  I've pretty much figured out what it takes to get a 260 or *310.  It is all about the spacing of the starting pattern.  (meaning the spacing of the enemy cars the first time you come to them on the first lap of the main race)  That controls everything.. almost.  You still have to drive well enough to get a 213 time.

Ok, so there are places during attract mode you can coin up and ways to run the qualify lap to get certain 'patterns' of the first 4 enemy cars the majority of the time.  Meaning first car you come to is on the left, 2nd car in order is on the right, next 2 are on the left.
 Or the first 2 are side by side and the next 2 are also, etc...   (many possible patterns)  BUT!!!!  Now this is a BIG BUT.  There is no way I have found, after many thousands of games, to do anything that controls the spacing of the enemy cars at the beginning of the main race.  (meaning how far they are away from each other or you as you come to them)  After you come to and pass those cars the first time, the pattern is set, all you can do is drive bad and make them move further away from you down the track.  So you have to get lucky and get the spacing pattern where all the enemy cars are closer to you than normal. (so you pass more right before the finish line) THEN, ALSO drive perfect :D

Just some scoring info for those that don't know (A time of 213 and 142 cars is 67,310  a time of 213 and 141 cars is 67,260.  213 and 140 cars is 67,210.  Time of 214 and 141 is 67,060, 214 and 140 cars is 67,010, etc..  )

Here's a breakdown of the spacing of enemy cars I've had over the last few months on Lap 1, at the First Hairpin: 

1. The Best spacing (4 car pattern), you can get inside all 4 cars on the hairpin (VERY RARE, 141 possibly 142. I've never ran a 213 with that spacing, hard to get a good first lap time)
2. You cut inside 3 cars on the hairpin and the 4th is immediately on your left as you leave the hairpin (RARE, I've passed 141 many times getting this spacing pattern best time 214.03, surprise cars pop up early on blind curves) 
3. You cut inside 3 cars on the hairpin and the 4th is halfway to the puddle on the left. (SEMI RARE, I've also passed 141 cars sometimes but usually 140 cars. I have run 213 but only got 140)
4. Pass 3 or 2 cars on inside during the hairpin and the 4th car is at the puddle or past.  Just stop. 140 or more is impossible. 

All of this is noticable at the finish line of lap 1.  If you pass the 4th car in the group (red and white car) well before the finish line of lap 1 you're in good shape if you run good.  If you cross the finish line at the same time or after that car has crossed it, it's over.  Just another 66,9XX

Since these "Short Spacing" patterns are rare, it's really hard to have an idea how the enemy cars are going to behave later in the race on laps 2,3,4 in the tough spots (turn 1 and the hairpin)  So I'll have an amazing race going, hit the hairpin on lap 4 and boom there's a f'n car there, that in every other race is way farther down the track.  It's like practicing for the olympics but only randomly on every 10-15th time the hurdles are spaced right for you to get your fastest time.  Frustrating at times ha! 

I usually play 15-20 games at a session, sometimes I get the goods, most times not. (and I still crash more than I'll admit)  And you still have to drive the damn game perfect!  No brushing cars, no skidding (excpet when necessary) hug the yellow lines etc. But I know from my own races that I still have A LOT of room for improvement!  Oh, and a time of 212 is technically possible...  I've run the individual lap times to get it, L1 55.67, L2 51.98, L3 52.00, L4 52.71 +.50 = 212.86  Just not in the same race. 

The history of the high scores was looked into a year ago... as much as it can be anyways.  For those that don't know heres a little info.

All Print Guinness books from 1985, 1986, and 1987 say 67,260 is the WR.  In issue 7, Feb. 1990 Electronic Gaming Monthly Magazine printed the first ever mention of a score of 67,310.  In 1998 Twin Galaxies and Walter Day released a book "Official Video Game & Pinball Book of World Records"  As you might have guessed, one of it's sources was Electronic Gaming Monthly.  It prints that 67,310 is the WR. When the TG website went up they used the book to populate the high scores on their site. That's just a little background on the current *high score.

I have no idea if 310 happened or not, but I know 260 did and there is a time associated with it. And  I'm going to beat it.


TL;DR This game still rocks, I'm back playing, figured some new stuff out, hope to post new high scores soon!
« Last Edit: August 25, 2021, 10:24:12 pm by falcor781 »
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Offline yamnitz

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Re: Pole Position and how to get better
« Reply #128 on: September 04, 2021, 10:02:50 am »
Awesome that you have a public place to play!  and the game is on the right settings too! 66k is no joke, great score.  Is the game an upright or cockpit? and what city is the Arcade in?  If you can run 66k no reason you shouldn't be able to crack 66,5xx or 66,7xx.

One of the only ways I've found to at least change up the starting patterns of cars is to delay pressing the gas at the start of the qualify lap. Just wait a second or 2.  Your lap timer doesn't start til you cross the start line so you will still get pole position and that puts the cars on the Q lap in different positions and seems to give different groupings of the cars in the main race.  Still random but at least different lol.  The fact that you are getting the 4 cars all grouped together on the first corner is, believe it or not, a good thing. Just have to go inside the 2 cars on the right and try not to slow down much if at all.  It's hard as hell, but it sets up the race to give you the chance to pass more cars.  Do you have any video of your gameplay?  I'd be able to tell you instantly where you are losing time.  At least where you can make up enough to get a few more seconds.  Hope you keep playing and good luck!
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Offline yamnitz

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Re: Pole Position and how to get better
« Reply #129 on: September 25, 2021, 07:32:04 am »
This thread has been so helpful over the last couple years I have to post this here! Ran a 67,260 a few days ago! 



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Offline TheSunshineFund

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Re: Pole Position and how to get better
« Reply #130 on: September 25, 2021, 06:18:39 pm »
Fucking amazing man.  So sick.  Hope you get that record soon and it will be celebrated as one of the best classic arcade achievements of all time (this score itself is definitely up there as well).  Good luck sir.
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Offline ChrisP

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Re: Pole Position and how to get better
« Reply #131 on: September 27, 2021, 03:09:57 am »
Amazing!

The best thing about this run is that it's actually just the tiniest hair short of perfect, so that means that there's the tiniest hair of room for improvement. Looking forward to it, but even if it never happens, this is legendary status!
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Offline yamnitz

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Re: Pole Position and how to get better
« Reply #132 on: September 30, 2021, 06:40:39 pm »
Amazing!

The best thing about this run is that it's actually just the tiniest hair short of perfect, so that means that there's the tiniest hair of room for improvement. Looking forward to it, but even if it never happens, this is legendary status!

Thanks man!  Appreciate it!  You are so right, def. room for improvement!  This game is so damn hard.  I run 66,910 or 66,960 whenever now. But getting that extra .5 seconds is unbelieveably difficult.  And it all starts with the random pattern of enemy cars at the beginning of the game too.  I haven't gotten to the point where I quit if I have a bad pattern.. but it's getting temtping.  Knowing that no matter how you play you can't get it is frustrating but I just use that run as more practice. 
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Offline yamnitz

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Re: Pole Position and how to get better
« Reply #133 on: September 30, 2021, 07:51:08 pm »
Fucking amazing man.  So sick.  Hope you get that record soon and it will be celebrated as one of the best classic arcade achievements of all time (this score itself is definitely up there as well).  Good luck sir.

Thanks! If/When I get 310 it will be The record. Nobody got 310. The evidence of it not happening is literally overwhelming. 

Les or Mike or both got 67,260. It happened. By them and me. I've been told that every High Score from the July 1984 Video Game Masters Tournament (where the "record" happened) went in to Guinness. I also know that there is zero mention ever of a score of 67,310 until Feb. 1990 in Electronic Gaming Monthly issue 7.  Why would you put in the time and effort to get a score in the Guinness Book of World Records and then they report it wrong. Then wrong agian in 1986, Then wrong again in 1987, then wrong again in every single magazine of the 80's. And nobody says anything. Not Wayne, not Les, not Mike, not Walter.. 

I'm aware of the stories that have been told on internet posts throughout the 2000's "shocked by an extra car" "1 in a million race" Wayne saying it happened on his machine, but never says what score was "IT" It is worth noting that it is remembered so clearly 30+ years later yet at the time it didn't seem to matter to anyone at all that the 'wrong?' score was submitted and accepted by TG and Guinness. Even though I was told by Jeff Peters that everyone knew it was a Guinness event so it was taken very seriously.  As it should have been.  No internet, no gaming expos every month, just these tournaments.  Where the top scores were recorded, submitted and put in print. 

In 1989 Issue 1 of Electronic Gaming Monthly they list the Pole Position high score as 67,260.  Issue 7 bumps the score by 50 points for the first time ever. 

I believe that 310 is likely possible. I believe if somene got that score, they played the shit out of Pole Position and they would be pretty damn sure that the score was reported correctly.  Why get high scores if it Never gets printed ever for 6 years? (and then in some niche magazine) If any actual proof of that score from 1984 surfaced I'd be the First to shake their hands!! I'd love to believe it happened. But all the evidence points to a clerical error, or intentional misprint in issue 7 of Electronic Gaming Monthly. I would LOVE to be proved wrong! Because I think 310 might actually be possible, and so did they. Unfortunately every single high score table in print including the Guinness Book in All of the 1980's shows that a score of 67,260 and a time of 213.84 was as good as they actually got. Please prove me wrong. Seriously, please. 
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Offline andrewg

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Re: Pole Position and how to get better
« Reply #134 on: October 03, 2021, 07:08:59 am »
I like to dig through stuff. This further cements the point being made above.

https://web.archive.org/web/20140123195127/http://mysite.verizon.net/hattg/pics/videogame/1986_VGM_TOGM.pdf


However, if you go by dates listed on Les Lagier's scores then presumably 67,260 happened in 1984 and 67,310 happened in 1986.
I'd say it's very possible that this happened, but 67,260 was still the score reported in 1987 according to Mark Alpiger's website on the results.


I of course want to believe Mike Klug, etc and it very well could just be that they didn't record the 67,310 for submission in 1984. It could have also happened in 1985, 1986, or 1987 and maybe there's a memory issue there given it was over 30 years ago... However once again all the results say 67,260 for each year's results (or more likely carried over from 1984's results presumably).


CONCLUSIONS:

Options that make sense to me:
1) 67,310 happened in the 1984 tournament and wasn't reported properly and the 67,260 rolled into the next editions.

2) Les Lagier achieved 67,260 at the tournament and then later upped his score to 67,310 and people are misremembering when the specific scores were achieved.

3) 67,310 happened: In 1990, Les Lagier contacted the USNVGT and sent them a photo of the 67,310 he achieved prior. (I can believe this because I bet it would be hard to get Guinness to change the score).

4) 67,310 didn't happen: Is the USNVGT reliable? Well, hopefully. 67,310 clearly isn't a typo, so SOMEONE entered it with photo proof or not. (I can believe this because Billy Mitchell et al).
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