Author Topic: Junior Progress  (Read 45082 times)

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Offline homerwannabee

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Re: Junior Progress
« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2013, 09:57:47 am »

Tell that to Dean Saglio.  He broke 300k years ago, and still hasn't hit the killscreen.  Granted he doesn't play it a ton, but it's not always a free ride.

OK, I should have added if you don't point press.  When Dean reaches the killscreen I'm sure it will be a WR.

When I broke 300K I was confident I could killscreen the game.  My high score by week: 125K, 250K, 740K.  Obviously I had help, but even without help I think if had gotten 300K on my own, I would have felt the same way.  Ben and Wag had similar experiences.  In fact, Ben said something even crazier... like he went from 80K to a killscreen.   (Again none of us point pressed on our first killscreens.)  The learning curve on Jr. is much different than say for DK.  It wasn't until I reached about 600K on DK that I felt I could killscreen the game.  Even then it took lots of work.

Wow 740K in 3 weeks!  Insanely incredible!  First off, I am beginning to think your intelligence is the upper 99.99%.  You by far are not a good example for how long it takes to learn this game.  I am going to make a list of super gifted gamers who are not good examples for how long it takes to learn a game.  So for the average gamer or slightly better than average gamer like myself these are definitely people not to listen to as far as how long it takes to do really well on any Arcade/MAME game.

They are
Mike Casper
Hank Chien
Ben Falls
Donald Hayes
Billy Mitchell
Todd Rogers
Dean Saglio (Yeah, I listed him which does make me a hypocrite to a certain extent.)  :)
Tom Votava
Steve Wagner

"Perception forged in delusion and refined by pain"

-Ross Benzinger

"It's like we are able to play beautiful music out there, but no one can hear the instruments"

-Leon Shepard
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Offline marinomitch13

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Re: Junior Progress
« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2013, 12:23:14 pm »
George, even with pressing, DKjr is a significantly easier game to killscreen than DK in terms of the actual skills needed. Patience is probably the hardest hurdle for DKjr. I've play DKjr on 3 separate occasions for about 2 hours, and I am at about 130k. Once I get the fast springboard stage down (which is where I lose 75% of my lives) I feel as though I'll be home free. And I am playing at about a 1.05m pace, I believe. I'm also playing standing up (and for a tall guy, that is not easy on these Nintendo cabs!). Maybe it is just easy after already playing DK so much, but I feel as though eventually the only stage you actually need to worry about is he chains stage (and maybe the springboards stage still a little), but it's nothing compared to the risk of the DK rivets and conveyors. Just my opinion, but I think there's truth to it, and it's not mainly just about whether or not someone is a special type of gamer.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2013, 12:31:02 pm by marinomitch13 »
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Offline homerwannabee

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Re: Junior Progress
« Reply #17 on: April 10, 2013, 12:46:24 pm »
George, even with pressing, DKjr is a significantly easier game to killscreen than DK in terms of the actual skills needed. Patience is probably the hardest hurdle for DKjr. I've play DKjr on 3 separate occasions for about 2 hours, and I am at about 130k. Once I get the fast springboard stage down (which is where I lose 75% of my lives) I feel as though I'll be home free. And I am playing at about a 1.05m pace, I believe. I'm also playing standing up (and for a tall guy, that is not easy on these Nintendo cabs!). Maybe it is just easy after already playing DK so much, but I feel as though eventually the only stage you actually need to worry about is he chains stage (and maybe the springboards stage still a little), but it's nothing compared to the risk of the DK rivets and conveyors. Just my opinion, but I think there's truth to it, and it's not mainly just about whether or not someone is a special type of gamer.

OK, it's apparent you are pretty quick at learning games as well.  It took me at least a couple of months to get to 130k.  I am going to have to include you in the list.

Exceptional gamers who don't represent what it takes the average or slightly above average gamer in regards to time to learn a game.

Mike Casper
Hank Chien
Mitchell Elliot
Ben Falls
Donald Hayes
Billy Mitchell
Todd Rogers
Dean Saglio
Tom Votava
Steve Wagner

Edit: I am not arguing that Donkey Kong is easier.  Yeah, I agree that it is harder.  My whole point is Donkey Kong Junior is not as easy as a game to master as some people are making it out to be.  Anyone who is killscreening this game within 2 months time is someone in my opinion is an exceptional gamer.   I consider myself slightly above average as a gamer, and it took me a LONG time to get to the killscreen.  The people who are doing great at this game are the exceptional gamers.  Most people like myself take a tad bit longer to master the game.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2013, 12:57:01 pm by homerwannabee »
"Perception forged in delusion and refined by pain"

-Ross Benzinger

"It's like we are able to play beautiful music out there, but no one can hear the instruments"

-Leon Shepard
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Offline ChrisP

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Re: Junior Progress
« Reply #18 on: April 10, 2013, 02:59:09 pm »
I think there is truth to what both of you are saying.

What it comes down to, I think, isn't so much raw talent or how "good a gamer" you are but more the efficiency of the learning process that you employ and to what degree you avail yourself of the modern tools and information at your disposal. But that's more "meta game."

I am progressing quickly for two reasons:

First, MAME. MAME is huge if you take full advantage of it. I save-stated like crazy the springboard and the chains, isolating it down to specific spots, doing it over and over until I got it. (Same for the hideout, which requires some tight execution to pop the "danger spark.")

Second, I am playing within a community that includes literally all of the best players in the world. I've been watching Ben almost every night, I downloaded Brian Allen's MARP game to dissect his pace, etc., then there was the video where you (George) spell everything out.

There's so much help out there when you go looking for it and are resourceful about finding it. Significantly more help than even a few years ago. It massively cuts down on the time needed to learn the game.

And back in the day, when there was no MAME and not much if any help, killscreening was a different proposition entirely. If you could reach a killscreen then within a few weeks/months, THAT would suggest a lot more in the way of raw talent because you had to do it on your own.
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Offline homerwannabee

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Re: Junior Progress
« Reply #19 on: April 10, 2013, 04:13:18 pm »
OK, that works for me Chris.  Yeah, I didn't use any save states, and there wasn't as many helpful videos out there. :)
"Perception forged in delusion and refined by pain"

-Ross Benzinger

"It's like we are able to play beautiful music out there, but no one can hear the instruments"

-Leon Shepard
Member for 11 Years Former DK3 World Record Holder DK Killscreener DK Masters - Rank D IGBY 2014 DKF Team Member CK Killscreener Submit a score for every DK3 track Blogger Twitch Streamer Former DKJR World Record Holder - MAME DKJR Killscreener DK3 Repetitive Blue Screener

Simpsons99

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Re: Junior Progress
« Reply #20 on: April 11, 2013, 09:17:10 am »
so it's good my name is not listed here.. Confused much  Yep

Tell that to Dean Saglio.  He broke 300k years ago, and still hasn't hit the killscreen.  Granted he doesn't play it a ton, but it's not always a free ride.

OK, I should have added if you don't point press.  When Dean reaches the killscreen I'm sure it will be a WR.

When I broke 300K I was confident I could killscreen the game.  My high score by week: 125K, 250K, 740K.  Obviously I had help, but even without help I think if had gotten 300K on my own, I would have felt the same way.  Ben and Wag had similar experiences.  In fact, Ben said something even crazier... like he went from 80K to a killscreen.   (Again none of us point pressed on our first killscreens.)  The learning curve on Jr. is much different than say for DK.  It wasn't until I reached about 600K on DK that I felt I could killscreen the game.  Even then it took lots of work.

Wow 740K in 3 weeks!  Insanely incredible!  First off, I am beginning to think your intelligence is the upper 99.99%.  You by far are not a good example for how long it takes to learn this game.  I am going to make a list of super gifted gamers who are not good examples for how long it takes to learn a game.  So for the average gamer or slightly better than average gamer like myself these are definitely people not to listen to as far as how long it takes to do really well on any Arcade/MAME game.

They are
Mike Casper
Hank Chien
Ben Falls
Donald Hayes
Billy Mitchell
Todd Rogers
Dean Saglio (Yeah, I listed him which does make me a hypocrite to a certain extent.)  :)
Tom Votava
Steve Wagner

Offline homerwannabee

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Re: Junior Progress
« Reply #21 on: April 11, 2013, 09:47:33 am »
so it's good my name is not listed here.. Confused much  Yep

You told me that you spent a ton of time on Donkey Kong Junior.   I don't remember you getting 740k in 3 weeks for Donkey Kong Junior.  It took you a very long time to reach that score.  So how is that confusing?  You still have not reached the killscreen in Donkey Kong as well.  You are in the average to slightly above average gamer when it comes actually learning a game.

Look I am not talking about a persons accomplishments.  What I am talking about is how quickly a person learns a game.  Ben Falls is a good example.  It took him what?  One day to reach his score on Dark Tower?  How long did it take you to beat that score back?   A very long time.  Again I am not talking about what you have accomplished.   I am talking about the rate at which a person learns a game.

Like me you have had to put in a ton of time into getting the scores that you achieved.  In a way that is more admirable because this did not come easy for you or me with certain games at least.  You are a great gamer because you put a lot of time at it.  You are not a great gamer because you are a natural at it.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2013, 09:52:05 am by homerwannabee »
"Perception forged in delusion and refined by pain"

-Ross Benzinger

"It's like we are able to play beautiful music out there, but no one can hear the instruments"

-Leon Shepard
Member for 11 Years Former DK3 World Record Holder DK Killscreener DK Masters - Rank D IGBY 2014 DKF Team Member CK Killscreener Submit a score for every DK3 track Blogger Twitch Streamer Former DKJR World Record Holder - MAME DKJR Killscreener DK3 Repetitive Blue Screener

Offline TheSunshineFund

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Re: Junior Progress
« Reply #22 on: April 11, 2013, 09:54:37 am »
so it's good my name is not listed here.. Confused much  Yep

Why is it that you take to heart so personally, every single list someone makes that does not feature your name? 

By the way, this is a perfect opportunity to mention that the shiny, new list forum featured on this site, is up, available and ready for action!

Meanwhile at the Hall of Justice....
There are countless folks not listed that I could name that are easily among the very best at becoming elite at a game at a very fast pace.  I don't see them in here complaining they weren't name checked.  They don't seek constant validation, their play does that for them...   

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Offline marky_d

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Re: Junior Progress
« Reply #23 on: April 11, 2013, 10:13:09 am »

Why is it that you take to heart so personally, every single list someone makes that does not feature your name? 
 

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Easy for you to say, mister make-the-list...
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Offline Xermon54

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Re: Junior Progress
« Reply #24 on: April 11, 2013, 10:44:06 am »
Me neither, my name wasn't listed, and I don't mind. In fact, I think I've been the slowest learner DK learner of all-time (Allen doesn't count, he's unbeatable in that category).

Quote
In fact, Ben said something even crazier... like he went from 80K to a killscreen.

Hahaha, this is funny. I imagine Ben Falls saying:"Wow, I reached 80k!... now I know I have the skills to kill screen it on my next attempt!" haha.
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Offline homerwannabee

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Re: Junior Progress
« Reply #25 on: April 11, 2013, 10:54:04 am »

Why is it that you take to heart so personally, every single list someone makes that does not feature your name? 
 

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Easy for you to say, mister make-the-list...

OK, pretty sure that was sarcasm with a ring of truth connected to it.  Well congratulations.  You made the list!


Mike Casper
Hank Chien
Mitchell Elliot
Ben Falls
Donald Hayes
Mark Kiehl
Billy Mitchell
Todd Rogers
Dean Saglio
Tom Votava
Steve Wagner

Like Vincent said, his ascension in Donkey Kong was not the quickest, and he doesn't make the list.
"Perception forged in delusion and refined by pain"

-Ross Benzinger

"It's like we are able to play beautiful music out there, but no one can hear the instruments"

-Leon Shepard
Member for 11 Years Former DK3 World Record Holder DK Killscreener DK Masters - Rank D IGBY 2014 DKF Team Member CK Killscreener Submit a score for every DK3 track Blogger Twitch Streamer Former DKJR World Record Holder - MAME DKJR Killscreener DK3 Repetitive Blue Screener

Simpsons99

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Re: Junior Progress
« Reply #26 on: April 11, 2013, 11:05:00 am »
Who said i was taking this Personaly?

When it comes to Dark Tower .. I had change the way i was playing the Level 40 Boss..   That tolk alittle time to figure out a different Patteren to that screen.
BTW Ben had watched me play Dark Tower in Streams just before he played the game .. So he was'nt going into the game Blind.

I take pride that Ben Played Dark Tower.
Ben is a great player.  He has alot of skills in Many games .  He's a great friend i enjoy sitting and watching his stream.

Offline TheSunshineFund

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Re: Junior Progress
« Reply #27 on: April 11, 2013, 12:10:25 pm »
Who said i was taking this Personaly?

Maybe personally wasn't the right word.  Too seriously, perhaps?  It's not a knock everytime someone comes up with a list (once again, list forum is available kids!) and your name is not on it. 


« Last Edit: April 11, 2013, 12:12:49 pm by pwnasaurus »
In the summer that you came
There was something eating everyone
And the sunshine fund was low
We couldn't greet you with a simple hello
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Simpsons99

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Re: Junior Progress
« Reply #28 on: April 11, 2013, 12:31:11 pm »
Ty  Steve but i think i made my point...  Don'nt care really anyways

Offline homerwannabee

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Re: Junior Progress
« Reply #29 on: April 11, 2013, 02:35:17 pm »
Ty  Steve but i think i made my point...  Don'nt care really anyways

Over the years I feel you have grown more, and more arrogant.   I think you think that you are not only a better gamer than me, but you think it's not even close.  Else you wouldn't have said anything since I left my name off of the list, and said I am an average to slightly better than average gamer.

That's too bad Brian.  I really hope you don't turn into a Rudy Ferreti, and get an even more over exaggerated sense of yourself.  I was willing to play the "We are equals" card with you, but that doesn't seem good enough any more.   Ironically over the years I probably have gone in the opposite direction.  The more I continue on this journey, the more I realize just how many outstanding gamers there are that I am nowhere close to being in their league.

If you want to believe that you are in a different league than me, than sure have it it.  Your the better gamer, if it means that much to you.
"Perception forged in delusion and refined by pain"

-Ross Benzinger

"It's like we are able to play beautiful music out there, but no one can hear the instruments"

-Leon Shepard
Member for 11 Years Former DK3 World Record Holder DK Killscreener DK Masters - Rank D IGBY 2014 DKF Team Member CK Killscreener Submit a score for every DK3 track Blogger Twitch Streamer Former DKJR World Record Holder - MAME DKJR Killscreener DK3 Repetitive Blue Screener