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Should Billy Mitchell's 1.06 million DK score be removed from the DK Forum?

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homerwannabee:
I thought of something.  Why are we keeping Mitchell's score on the board?  Now some might say, well because Twin Galaxies has it as official.
Here's the thing though.  My Donkey Kong 3 score is still official for dip switch 3 hard settings, and yet my score was removed.
So, what I am saying is this action would not be unprecedented.  We have already varied from TG.  So that's why I think the DK Forum shouldn't be held to TG standards.  I mean even the keeper of the DK list has disputed this score.

xelnia:
Your DK3 game actually had evidence that could be reviewed.  :D With your game, it's easy to say it was played on this setting or that setting and reclassify the score. With mystery DK games played in the shadows, we have nothing solid to go on. I said something over at TG to the effect of: with Billy, all we have is a history of shady behavior but no smoking gun.

I started the dispute on TG hoping that new some information would come to light. Not everyone in the TG community sees what goes on here, and sure enough, Michael Sroka posted some footage he took at the 2010 IVGHOF event where Billy announced the scores. It was no smoking gun, but it did show Billy displaying two direct feed games (one of DK, one of DKJR) on TVs. That just adds to the shady factor.

As HSL moderator, my official position is to always follow the will of the community. I've thought about it and I'm not sure what kind of process we would need to go through or what level of community support would be needed. 100%? 75% 50%+1? And if everyone agrees, do we replace the 1.06 with the equally shady 1.05 mortgage brokers score, 1.04 KoK score?

It's also important to be very clear on what the issue is...are we removing scores because he didn't do them live, or because he didn't do them at all? The current DKF policy is to not retroactively apply our evidence standards to old scores without evidence, otherwise a lot of MARP and TG scores would already be gone. So. what hard evidence do we have? For Billy's 1.06, we only have a few sporadic shots of direct feed games in Sroka's video...that's not nearly enough to determine how those games were performed.

My personal feeling (which I would not use to make any sort of unilateral decision regarding the HSL) is, at the very best, Billy did not perform any of the Big 3 games in a live venue, but did so in private. This means the 1,047,200 seen in King of Kong, the 1,050,200 that was supposedly done at a mortgage bankers convention, and the 1,062,800 which was supposedly done at Boomers. I believe that, regardless of the method used to achieve them, those scores were made in private and saved for whatever dramatic purposes Billy thought they would be good for. I believe there is strong enough evidence in the available tapes of the 1.047 and 1.05 scores to question whether those scores were done on MAME instead of a real PCB. I'm not entirely convinced they're MAME scores, and I'm not entirely convinced they're not.

QAOP Spaceman:

Seatbelts fastened please

 <popcorn>

WCopeland:
The ref who verified these scores is not a credible witness and is a proven pathological liar. Remove both the DK and DKJr.

ChrisP:

--- Quote ---The current DKF policy is to not retroactively apply our evidence standards to old scores without evidence, otherwise a lot of MARP and TG scores would already be gone.
--- End quote ---

I agree with keeping it, simply on this basis. It's already stated on the HSL that scores from other sources are in something of a grey area when it comes to standards. If TG keeps it, DKF should keep it, if TG drops it, DKF should drop it too. Treat it as we would any other "imported score."

I would also argue in favor of keeping it on other bases, but the honest part of me knows that my reasoning would be on purely aesthetic and emotional grounds, and I'm not even going to pretend that my position wouldn't be fallacious. Ie, "it's historically important", or "removing it would make the scoreboard awkward," or "that's the score that most non-DK folk come here to check on" or "there'd be no DKF at all if it weren't for the documentary that arose out of Billy and his shady exploits," I'm not even gonna bother getting into those arguments, because I know that they're irrelevant.

Keep it, but by all means, give it some sort of asterisk, like linking it to the TG dispute thread. That would actually red-pill people on the controversy around this score far more effectively than simply removing it would. Let the user make up their own mind.

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