Strange Scores

[gstrain]

There was an interesting discussion going on over on Mark Alpiger's forums (CAGDC) about "strange scores" that had touched on how back in the 80's Billy Mitchell would travel around the country challenging the questionable scores of players, most famously about claims of scores of 3.4M+ on Pac-Man which would have required passing the split screen.  I'd mentioned I thought it was ironic how things had come full circle and how it is now some of Billy's later Donkey Kong scores which quite a few people have become skeptical of, most famously dramatized in the movie King of Kong, but also fed fuel by Billy's less than stellar showings at the live Kong Off events.

Well the conversation was moving in an interesting direction with questions being asked about the circumstances of some of Billy's later Donkey Kong scores, especially his "new DK and DK Jr World Records done live the same day" at Boomers in July 2010.  Unfortunately just as conversation was getting interesting and it looked like fresh looks at the videos from Boomers were yielding new information, Mark Alpiger decided to abruptly end the inquiry and lock the discussion about the facts of the event.

Of course it's always disappointing when conversation is stifled, especially when on such an important subject as the integrity of high scores.  That said, if CAGDC doesn't care to discuss questions about scores which it has trumpeted in its news banner, that's Mark's decision to make and direction to set, and I respect that.

Regardless, I thought I'd take the discussion started at CAGDC and invite others here to join into the conversation in a freer environment.  Here's the original thread with a relevant starting point: http://www.classicarcadegaming.com/forums/index.php/topic,679.msg75010.html#msg75010

[alumbrada]

 

[homerwannabee]

Well my first idea got shot down about why there is music instead of real sound.  Well maybe the real conversation was so boring the original poster went with music instead.  I mean we are talking about taking out, and putting back in an arcade rom.  Not the most entertaining stuff.

[tilt]

  "Let's step carefully, George...  You (and / or "lot of people") are veering towards defamation here.  I only allowed your post because it's factual (I've been hearing burbles about this for years), and you used the word 'skeptical'.  But, let's make no bones about it - this is at the line, and let's not pursue this here."

Now, to be honest, no place is really a 'good' place for this conversation.  While the chitbox rambling may go on and on, nothing cohesive has formed (for the most part).  I feel as if this may be a decent place to put some of the 'evidence' that people point to when talking about the fishiness ( ) of the scores.  I won't discuss my opinions on this in this topic, but I will provide some videos to get a conversation of sorts started.  If this is not a good place for this discussion, I will remove this post.
Billy Mitchell 'Boomer' DK JR board swap: http://youtu.be/O_5cuc-ayP0

Billy Mitchell 'Florida Mortgage Broker' score 1.0502m: http://youtu.be/Y0ZKEGZpggI

Billy Mitchell KoK score, 1.047m: http://youtu.be/KYtJzRcvOzk

Please note that in the video of the "board swap", a DK JR pcb is swapped out for the same DK JR pcb.  Take that as you will.

[WCopeland]

I'm sure this thread will end well

[homerwannabee]

Interesting tidbit from that video.

Billy Mitchell, "It's a good thing we got rob here, because as good as I can play this game I couldn't switch the board out, and the board in.....................I am not too sure I am going to admit anything else though."

[tilt]

I am not too sure I am going to admit anything else though. As I said, the videos speak for themselves.

[xelnia]

Boomers was the 1.06 score, not the 1.05. There is no "tape" of the Boomers score that anyone knows of.

[tilt]

Boomers was the 1.06 score, not the 1.05. There is no "tape" of the Boomers score that anyone knows of.

My mistake.  The 1.0502 is actually the mortgage convention or whatever lol.

[xelnia]

Just to recap, Billy's supposed 1M games:

1,014,000 - sometime in 2004 - I think only Robert Mruczek has seen this tape and it might be the one that got eaten by his VCR.

1,047,200 - June 2004 - the Funspot / King of Kong tape. Direct feed. Who knows when this game actually happened. Billy claims this was a live score.

1,050,200 - July 2007 - the Florida Association of Mortgage Brokers tape. Also direct feed. Billy supposedly played in a back room away from the crowd.

1,062,800 - July 2010 - the Boomers score. Although claimed to be recorded, there is no known footage of this game.

As best as can be determined, Billy has never scored 1M+ in any live, neutral venue or event. His highest known live score, reported by Joel West, is 982,000. This was reportedly a killscreen game that occurred at AVGC in September 2015. Previously, there were rumors that his personal best was in the 1,120,000 range. Recently, Billy himself claimed that his personal best is higher than Hank's 1,138,600 but not as high as the 1.17 scores put up by Robbie and Wes.

[gstrain]

Griley was watching the "Billy Mitchell speaks (july,2010) moments after breaking donkey kong record" video from Boomers (! No longer available) today and commented that if you watch closely at 1:25 and 1:32 into the video you can see the screen of the machine behind Billy very briefly.  griley knows both Jr and DK very well and thinks the screen looks like it is DK Jr rather than DK.  If so, and maybe griley or other experts care to chime in, it is rather odd that the game would be showing DK Jr if in fact a DK record had been set on it moments before. 

[ChrisP]

1,047,200 - June 2004 - the Funspot / King of Kong tape. Direct feed. Who knows when this game actually happened. Billy claims this was a live score.

The tape was first seen on June 4th, 2005 at Funspot 7 (and we all know how that went down). The alleged performance date, according to an ancient Wayback Machine snapshot, was almost exactly one year prior, June 7th, 2004.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say it was a "live" score. I'm not aware of any claim of Billy's to that effect, but then, as far as I know, I don't think Billy has ever owned a DK either, so unless it was at somebody else's house, it would have to been "live" in the sense of "live" being at a public location. Nobody really knows anything about this score though (except  ).

See attachment.

Also, just for fun and sorta off-topic, I included a Wayback snapshot of the DK scoreboard from March 2005, just before KoK started filming. As can be seen, BTW, was a distant third before the movie was underway, and it was clearly a two-man race between Billy and Steve by the time they started rolling...

P.S. LOL, that top 10. what a decade-plus it's been! Poor Leo Daniels. From 9th place in 2005 to 127th in 2016.

[gstrain]

... also fed fuel by Billy's less than stellar showings at the live Kong Off events.

Here's Billy's results from the 3 Kong Off events he attended:

The Kong Off 1
March 19-20, 2011
Richie Knucklez' Arcade Games - Flemington, NJ

[noembed]

Place	Score	Player
1	994,900	Hank Chien
2	986,900	Steve Wiebe
3	941,800	Eric Howard
4	912,800	Dean Saglio
5	851,900	Vincent Lemay
6	846,800	Ben Falls
7	821,200	Billy Mitchell

[/noembed]

The Kong Off 2
November 16-18, 2012
The 1Up - Denver, CO

[noembed]

Place	Score	Player
1	1,105,400	Jeff Willms
2	1,079,400	Dean Saglio
3	1,006,700	Steve Wiebe
4	996,800	Hank Chien
5	996,200	Kyle Goewert
6	988,000	Vincent Lemay
7	943,700	Mark Kiehl
8	901,900	Billy Mitchell

[/noembed]

The Kong Off 3
November 15-17, 2013
The 1Up - Denver, CO

KO3 Final Results
[noembed]

Place	Score	Player
1	1,096,200	Jeff Willms
2	1,067,100	Ross Benziger
3	1,056,900	Hank Chien
4	1,053,200	Steve Wiltshire
5	1,048,800	Steve Wiebe
6	1,033,000	Dean Saglio
7	1,032,000	Dave McCrary (overall Wildcard winner)
8	1,020,700	Mike Groesbeck
9	1,006,500	Kyle Goewert
10	989,700	Vincent Lemay
11	893,300	Corey Chambers
12	891,200	Jonathan McCourt
13	883,300	Eric Tessler
14	840,300	Robbie Lakeman
15	809,200	Jeff Wolfe
16	736,800	Ben Falls
17	711,400	Ethan Daniels
18	703,600	Aaron Rounsaville
19	702,500	Daniel Desjardins
20	680,000	Daniel Dock
21	639,300	Shaun Boyd
22	598,800	Billy Mitchell

For whatever reason, at these neutral live events Billy failed to perform near the level of his previously submitted TG scores and was consistently beaten by a wide margin by his King of Kong nemesis Steve Wiebe,  later DK world champion Hank Chien, MAME world champion Dean Saglio, and other players.

[homerwannabee]

OK, you don't need to be an expert to realize this is a Donkey Kong Junior screen.  I ask ANYONE.  To just start a Donkey Kong Junior game.  The game has Insert Coin, and Player Coin in different Colors.  Now go to a Donkey Kong game.  The Insert Coin, and Player Coin are in the same color.  Now check out Billy Mitchell's screen in the background.  It's in different colors were the Insert Coin, and Player Coin is.


But the most obvious evidence is at 1:31.  Check it out yourself.  Are those vines you see or ladders?  They are vines.  Even being super fuzzy it's plain as day they are vines.

Maybe another person can refute me.  That actually would be nice.

[marky_d]

It's really obvious at 2:04 in the video.