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Other Classic Arcade Games => Classic Arcade Game Discussion => Topic started by: VON on December 25, 2013, 12:31:22 am

Title: Zoo Keeper
Post by: VON on December 25, 2013, 12:31:22 am
(https://i.imgur.com/VENK1Nf.jpg)

Disclaimer: this thread contains numerous broken links because I'm bad at the internet.

Objective
The purpose of this primer is to summarize the design and play fundamentals for the classic arcade game Zoo Keeper in hope of generating more interest in the game and help shortcut its rather steep learning curve.

Additionally, I mean to formalize a Zoo Keeper lexicon so that future talk of strategy and tactics can be easily communicated.

This is... a work in progress.

Overview
I intended to write my own introduction for Zoo Keeper, but after looking around the net I decided such work had already been done many times over.  For instance, this excerpt from Wikipedia is actually pretty good:
Quote from: Wikipedia
Zoo Keeper is an arcade game created by Taito America and released in 1982. In the game's storyline, the player's character, named Zeke, is a zookeeper whose girlfriend, Zelda, has been kidnapped by a malicious monkey. To distract Zeke, the monkey has unlocked the cages in the zoo, allowing the animals to escape. The player must control Zeke to run, jump, build walls, and collect bonus items in an effort to recapture and contain the animals before finally rescuing Zelda.

In 2005, the game was ported as part of the Taito Legends arcade game collection for PlayStation 2, Xbox, and home PCs.
Gameplay

Zoo Keeper has three different types of stages. In the zoo stage, Zeke must run around the edges of the screen to build up the zoo's outer wall and keep the animals from escaping as they try to break through it from inside. Each of these stages is timed, with items appearing periodically that can be picked up for bonus points. One item is always a net; if Zeke picks this up, he can use it for a few seconds to capture animals and put them back in the cage. Multiple nets appear in later zoo stages. When time runs out, the player earns bonus points for every animal that is not outside the wall perimeter. Points are also earned for jumping over animals.

After every second zoo stage, the player enters a stage in which the goal is to maneuver Zeke from the bottom of the screen to a platform at top center, where Zelda is tied to a tree. All platforms except the top one scroll across the screen, some carrying bonus items; the player scores points for moving from one level to another (up or down), grabbing items, and touching Zelda to rescue her. At the same time, a monkey throws down coconuts that bounce among the platforms and must be avoided.

After every platform stage except the first, the player enters a bonus stage with several escalators and a cage in front of each one. Zeke must cross the screen to get to each escalator, jumping over both the animals running toward him and the cage itself. Zelda waits for him at the top of the last escalator; if he reaches her, the player earns an extra life. The first bonus stage has two escalators, the second one has three, and all subsequent bonus stages have four.

A life is lost if Zeke touches an animal without holding a net, is hit by a coconut, or falls off the bottom edge of the screen.
Also, here is a rather amusing video introduction: http://www.collegehumor.com/video/6427551/bleep-bloop-zoo-keeper (http://www.collegehumor.com/video/6427551/bleep-bloop-zoo-keeper)

along with a basic strategy guide from StrategyWiki: http://strategywiki.org/wiki/Zoo_Keeper (http://strategywiki.org/wiki/Zoo_Keeper)

an informational packet from CoinOpSpace which includes a PDF of the original Zoo Keeper manual: http://www.coinopspace.com/group/zookeeper (http://www.coinopspace.com/group/zookeeper)

and a blog devoted entirely to one man's quest to become the greatest Zoo Keeper player in the world: https://web.archive.org/web/20120225173627/http://www.keeperofthezoo.com/ (https://web.archive.org/web/20120225173627/http://www.keeperofthezoo.com/)

From these assorted introductions I need to clarify that I will be referring to the "zoo stages" as the Rounds (because that is what they are called in-game and I think it's clever, as Zeke goes round and round while building the zoo wall), the "platform stages" as the Coconut boards, and the "bonus stages" as the Escalator boards.

The board types, in the order they are encountered in the game, are outlined below.

Round 1/Elephant Board/Beer Board
(https://i.imgur.com/Dli7zHK.jpg)
Prize Potential: to earn maximum point value, prizes must be gathered in order.  This is true for every Round in Zoo Keeper.
#1  120pts. 
#2  250pts.
#3  500pts.
#4  1000pts.
Notes: Players will get "1 Free Try" on this board if they are trampled by an elephant before the Net appears. First appearance of the Elephant, the slowest animal in Zoo Keeper, worth 250pts. if captured at Round's end.  Board spawns only Elephants. Zeke builds wall in two-brick layers, so several passes over the same area are required for the wall to reach its maximum 9-brick thickness.

Round 2/Snake Board/Clover Board

(https://i.imgur.com/KopWDUY.jpg)
Prize Potential:
#1 250pts.
#2 500pts.
#3 1000pts.
#4 2000pts.
Notes: First appearance of the Snake, the second slowest animal in Zoo Keeper, worth 500pts. if captured at Round's end. Board spawns a mix of Elephants and Snakes. Zeke builds wall in two-brick layers.

1st Coconut Board/Purple Coconut Board
(https://i.imgur.com/ITmdi39.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/50Eo2wX.jpg)
*The top-level platform on all Coconut boards awards successively higher point values (up to 300,000pts.) for each additional time the platform is landed on after Zeke has landed upon a platform of a different level.  In fact, every level of platform will continue to award landing points so long as Zeke changes levels between jumps.  Even the bottom-level platform awards landing points, though those figures are not included in the Coconut board stats.

I apologize for the inconsistency here, where I refer to platform-levels in the one image and just platforms in the next.

Round 3/Camel Board/Sundae Board
(https://i.imgur.com/LMKFxlE.jpg)
Prize Potential:
#1 500pts.
#2 1000pts.
#3 2000pts.
#4 4000pts.
Notes: First Round that begins with no wall built. First appearance of the Camel, the third slowest animal in Zoo Keeper, worth 1000pts. if captured at Round's end.  Board spawns a mix of Elephants, Snakes, and Camels. Zeke builds wall in three-brick layers.

Round 4/Rhino Board/Watermelon Board
(https://i.imgur.com/oPqLROl.jpg)
Prize Potential:
#1 1000pts.
#2 2000pts.
#3 4000pts.
#4 8000pts.
Notes: First appearance of the Rhino, the third fastest animal in Zoo Keeper, worth 2000pts. if captured at Round's end. Board spawns a mix of Elephants, Snakes, Camels, and Rhinos. Zeke builds wall in three-brick layers.

2nd Coconut Board/Green Coconut Board
(https://i.imgur.com/BQsfi1x.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/6Z6Vmts.jpg)

1st Escalator Board/2-Floors Escalator
(https://i.imgur.com/J13O2WN.jpg)

Round 5/Moose Board/Strawberry Board
(https://i.imgur.com/b9aoXO2.jpg)
Prize Potential:
#1 2000pts.
#2 4000pts.
#3 8000pts.
#4 15000pts.
Notes: The Wall Outline is only a visual tool to be used for clarity and accuracy.  Beginning with Round 3, no Round begins with any wall built. First appearance of the Moose, the second fastest animal in Zoo Keeper, worth 4000pts. if captured at Round's end. Board spawns a mix of Elephants, Snakes, Camels, Rhinos, and Moose. Zeke builds wall in four-brick layers.

Round 6/30K Lion Board/Trophy Board
(https://i.imgur.com/kF7iODH.jpg)
Prize Potential:
#1 3000pts.
#2 6000pts.
#3 12000pts.
#4 25000pts.
Notes: First appearance of the Lion, the fastest animal in Zoo Keeper, worth 30000pts. (on this board only) if captured at Round's end. Board spawns a mix of Elephants, Snakes, Camels, Rhinos, Moose, and Lions. Zeke builds wall in four-brick layers.

3rd Coconut Board/Blue Coconut Board
(https://i.imgur.com/xhXE1TO.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Aw7T5WA.jpg)

2nd Escalator Board/3-Floors Escalator
(https://i.imgur.com/o29FoSr.jpg)

(BEGINNING OF LOOP)

Round 7/40K Lion Board/Money Board
(https://i.imgur.com/ACduBEi.jpg)
Prize Potential:
#1 5000pts.
#2 10000pts.
#3 20000pts.
#4 40000pts.
Notes: Lions captured at Round's end are worth 40000pts.  Board spawns a mix of all animals. Zeke builds wall in five-brick layers, so only two passes over the same area are required for the wall to reach maximum thickness.

Round 8/50K Lion Board/Rainbow Board
(https://i.imgur.com/t6q6x0v.jpg)
Prize Potential:
#1 8000pts.
#2 15000pts.
#3 30000pts.
#4 60000pts.
Notes: Lions captured at Round's end are worth 50000pts.Board spawns a mix of all animals. Zeke builds wall in five-brick layers.

4th Coconut Board/Red Coconut Board
(https://i.imgur.com/jmW3SmE.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/9ghp5qw.jpg)

3rd Escalator Board/4-Floors Escalator #1
(https://i.imgur.com/4d69qEk.jpg)

Round 9/60K Lion Board/Green 4-Net Board
(https://i.imgur.com/lsNJ20j.jpg)
Prize Potential:
#1 10000pts.
#2 20000pts.
#3 40000pts.
#4 80000pts.
Notes: Lions captured at Round's end are worth 60000pts. Board spawns a mix of all animals. Zeke builds wall in six-brick layers.

Round 10/70K Lion Board/Beige 4-Net Board
(https://i.imgur.com/GBaPVzd.jpg)
Prize Potential:
#1 15000pts.
#2 30000pts.
#3 60000pts.
#4 120000pts.
Notes: Lions captured at Round's end are worth 70000pts. Board spawns a mix of all animals. Zeke builds wall in six-brick layers.

5tttp:h Coconut Board/Invisible Coconut Board
(https://i.imgur.com/yeLe2ko.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/2UbkDRu.jpg)

4th Escalator Board/4-floors Escalator #2
(https://i.imgur.com/4d69qEk.jpg)
Notes: 4-floors Escalator #1 and #2 are identical in terms of gameplay, they simply fall at different times in the loop.

(END OF LOOP)

After completion of the 4th Escalator board, the game enters a loop that begins with Round 7 and ends again at the 4-floors Escalator #2.  However, Round 7 now becomes Round 11, Round 8 becomes Round 12 etc..  And the Round counter ticks up until Round 19, after which it resets to Round 10.  This reset of the Round counter occurs the fourth time the Rainbow board is encountered.  More importantly, as more and more Rounds are completed, the overall speed of animals continues to increase.  Precisely, the animal speed counter increments by one after every loop completion and increments by one for every Round within the loop - e.g. if the animal speed counter is at 39 for Round 7, it will be at speed 42 for Round 10, but back to speed 40 for Round 11. Note: Round speed increases have no effect on the Escalator boards. 

[EDIT] A better way of explaining the speed increase is to say: every loop, each Round type increases in speed by 1.
As to what that increment means or how much it impacts the game, I don't know.  I do know the speed scale is limited to 99, but I don't know where it starts.  Someone will help me with this [EDIT]  --> See response to this edit here: https://donkeykongforum.net/index.php?topic=772.msg12826#msg12826 (https://donkeykongforum.net/index.php?topic=772.msg12826#msg12826)

Strategy

Coconut Board (General):
There is no one correct way of playing the non-Invisible Coconut boards.  Try and be quick to the top, as any delays will only allow the monkey to throw more coconuts on the screen.  The monkey will only stop throwing coconuts once the screen is completely saturated to the point of causing slow-down.

It's technically possible to dick around forever on these boards, although I've yet to see video of someone exploit this tactic to a score of any significance.  The inclusion of the landing points and prize points figures was likely unnecessary, but in case someone wants to investigate Coconut board exploitation, I documented all point sources for thoroughness.  Twin Galaxies had a rule in place to prevent unlimited top-platform landings, but it is my opinion that such a rule is irrelevant.  As I said, I've never seen this tactic exploited to a point where it could even begin to threaten the top "normal" gameplay scores, and so, until someone demonstrates Coconut leaching as a viable point-pressing tactic, I'm going to assume it is not.   

Coconut Board (Invisible):
To consistently pass the Invisible Coconut board with ease, players must develop a patterned approach.  All Coconut boards actually begin with the same sequence of platforms on levels 1 through 4, and several patterns exist which can take advantage of this.  If the pattern is missed, sometimes prizes will show the location of platforms, although no prizes spawn on the 5th platform so its location can never be seen.

For further discussion of the Invisible Coconuts, see here: https://donkeykongforum.net/index.php?topic=772.msg12826#msg12826 (https://donkeykongforum.net/index.php?topic=772.msg12826#msg12826)
 

Escalator Board:

The Escalator boards always exhibit the exact same behavior and are 100% patternable.  Nevertheless, the Escalator boards can be some of the most challenging and frustrating boards in the game.  Most players will learn systems to clear the 1st-floor and 2nd-floor escalators without trouble, but all players will have difficulty clearing the 3rd-floor and 4th -floor escalators until they have practiced them extensively. 

The challenge in clearing the 3rd-floor and 4th -floor escalators is not in recognizing the animal patterns, but in jumping over the cages blocking the escalators before the animal patterns break down, and a continuous, unsurvivable stream of animals comes parading from the cage.

These so-called "bonus stages" can easily eat more lives than they reward, and it is not at all uncommon for newer players to lose all their remaining lives the first time they encounter the 4th-floor of the Escalator board.

Practice, practice, practice.

Rounds (General):
Save walling in the animals until near the end of the Round.  In later Rounds it becomes impossible to keep the animals walled from the beginning of the board through the duration of the timer fuse; i.e. the animals move too quickly and will expeditiously destroy the wall.  For this reason, it's actually better to let the animals out intentionally, but in a way that can be controlled.

The Golden Rule: Upon reaching the wall perimeter, all animals must travel around the perimeter the furthest distance possible to reach Zeke. e.g. if Zeke is positioned in the top-middle of the wall perimeter and an animal exits to his right, that animal will begin traveling clockwise around the perimeter; and if an animal exits to Zeke's left, that animal will begin traveling counter-clockwise around the perimeter. 
(https://i.imgur.com/yObjxEm.jpg)
(The fella from the College Humor video who talked about animals traveling to 6 O'clock when Zeke is at 12 O'clock actually did have it right.)

To manipulate animal behavior using the Golden Rule players must be careful to watch where Zeke's position is relative to an animal exiting the wall: a task made easiest through deliberate partial wall building.

The following videos demonstrate how partial wall building and deliberate positioning of Zeke are used to control the direction animals travel after exiting the wall:
Video#1: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/45945011?filter=highlights&sort=time
Video #1 shows one method for controlling the direction of animals on a Rainbow board. 
This is a "bottom-open" strategy, and while "top-open" strategies can be just as useful, "bottom-open" is surely the most commonly employed by Zoo Keeper players.

Top-Open Strategy Shown on 70K Lion Board:
(https://i.imgur.com/HC8ngId.jpg)   

In Video #1, the first net is used to reverse all the animals and complete the right side of the wall, which ensures the animals will most readily exit through the bottom of the wall and thus be forced to travel clockwise around the perimeter.  After reversal of the animals I want to hold my position in the lower right corner until the last animal exits the wall.  In this case, the last animal is an annoying elephant which refuses to exit, and I am forced to bail out across the bottom before it reaches the perimeter (It is important to continuously jump when crossing areas of the perimeter where brick should not be laid - as long as Zeke is jumping, he will not lay wall brick).  Luckily, by the time the elephant finally makes its way out I have made it back to a position which forces the elephant to join the common direction of the pack.   

Video #2: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/45944852?filter=highlights&sort=time
Video #2 shows one method for controlling the direction of animals on a 60K Lion board.
Again, the 1st net is used to reverse the animals and the last net is used to capture them.  Nets #2 and #3 can be used to either cage stragglers traveling opposite the pack, reverse the pack, or try for big jumps (Zeke is invincible so long as he holds a net).  In this case, I used net #2 to claim a million point jump and net #3 to reverse the animals in hopes of regrouping them.  The grouping of animals using the nets will be discussed in the advanced section of Rounds strategy. 

Rounds (Advanced; AKA: The One Hundred Million Point March):
There is a maximum number of animals (16) that will spawn on any Round, and because Zeke's position is directly linked to the direction animals travel after reaching the wall perimeter it is imperative to know when exactly that 16th animal exits the cage in the board's center.  The following image gives a close estimate to when the 16th animal exits on each of Rounds 7 through 10.
(https://i.imgur.com/v8XeA8G.jpg)
[EDIT] The varying markers of last animal exit are indicative of the real time length of each Round's timer.  I haven't checked this, but it's quite possible the last animal exits at the same real time on each Round- i.e. the 70K Lion board is the longest in the game.[EDIT]  Armed with this information it becomes a lot easier to know when it is safe to move freely around the entire perimeter.

For further discussion of the timer fuse, see here: https://donkeykongforum.net/index.php?topic=772.msg12826#msg12826 (https://donkeykongforum.net/index.php?topic=772.msg12826#msg12826)

Chaining Nets Together
Once comfortable with general Round survival strategy, it is time to investigate the assorted methods of forging large, jumpable groups of animals.

Jumping large groups of animals is the most efficient way to score in Zoo Keeper.  In fact, jumping large groups of animals is so scoring efficient, all other sources of points within the game become marginalized in comparison.  Capturing the Lions can yield big points, but just about every other animal isn't worth squat.

Points for Captured Animals
(https://i.imgur.com/ydkEx8Q.jpg)

Points for Jumps
(https://i.imgur.com/dENfWKm.jpg)

Video #3: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/45869565?filter=highlights&sort=time
Video #3 shows one method for creating a large grouping of animals on a Money board.
In this example, grabbing of the first net is delayed so that the last net can be snatched up immediately after the first expires, and a big jump can be tried safely - the last net is used here as a "safety net" ;)

Video #4: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/45985671?filter=highlights&sort=time
Video #4 shows one method for creating a large grouping of animals on a 70K Lion board. 
This is essentially the same method demonstrated in Video #3, but here nets #2 and #3 are used to set up the big jump try.

Of course, these schemes will not always work because there is no way to influence which particular mix of animals spawn on any of the mixed animal Rounds, nor is there a fixed speed for any species of animal. i.e. sometimes a board will spawn three extremely slow elephants and four extremely fast lions, while other times, the same board will spawn one fast elephant and six lions all moving at different speeds.  Furthermore, even with the right mix of animals there can be no guarantee the distinct animal positions will blissfully coincide with when Zeke needs to grab the net for setting up a big jump try.  For these reasons, Zoo Keeper becomes a game of decision making more than anything else.  Players may recognize a situation where a net can be used to forge a tight grouping of animals, but there may be no "safety net" to help claim the jump; is it worth the risk?  Similarly, situations will arise wherein delaying a net in trying to set up a big jump try will just be too dangerous, and a decision of survival versus points must be made.   

Evaluation of risk versus reward is everything in Zoo Keeper.

For a discussion of Round scoring average and the trade-off between actively hunting big jumps and playing safely, see here: https://donkeykongforum.net/index.php?topic=772.msg12925#msg12925 (https://donkeykongforum.net/index.php?topic=772.msg12925#msg12925)

A Good Mix of Animals (AKA: Not an Elephant in Sight)
(https://i.imgur.com/5wxBcZb.jpg)

Interestingly, the one time I managed a 30 million jump (from a ROUND 10 savestate) I had to "raw dog" it.  After their capture most of the animals - especially the Lions - re-exit the wall very quickly, and subsequently there is little time to reach the grouped animals for a big jump try before the faster animals break off from the pack.  However, there is an alternative to trying for a big jump immediately after the animals respawn.  Instead, the faster animals can be allowed to break from the pack and the big jump try is taken once the pack of faster animals has circled the wall once and rejoined the pack of slower animals.  Depending on how the board was played up to that point will determine whether or not a "safety net" is in place.  In the following examples I had no "safety net" and was forced to "raw dog" it with varying success.

Video #5: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/46001032?filter=highlights&sort=time
Video #5 shows a big jump try based on the merging of two distinct groups of animals.

Video #6: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/46001020?filter=highlights&sort=time
Video #6 demonstrates the same technique as shown in Video #5, but with less success.

Finally, the methods shown here are but a few of the many possible ways to play the Rounds.  For example, the methods demonstrated in Videos #1 and #2 can be employed in reverse, to create a "top-open" wall; and, the methods demonstrated in Videos #3 and #4 can be applied to numerous other pairings of nets.  The methods shared here may not even be the most effective, and therefore, players are urged to investigate these matters for themselves, and make this game their own.
Title: Re: Re: VonBlogenstein
Post by: marinomitch13 on December 25, 2013, 12:46:05 am
Just... wow. Sick, Ross. Very sick.
Title: Re: Re: VonBlogenstein
Post by: ripper on December 25, 2013, 05:24:30 am
That's a major hunk of ZooKeeper info.   ;D
Title: Re: Re: VonBlogenstein
Post by: hchien on December 25, 2013, 07:12:37 am
Nice!
Title: Re: Re: VonBlogenstein
Post by: xelnia on December 25, 2013, 08:30:26 am
Awesome stuff Ross. Now long before Lexmark's snarky reply over at CAGDC?  ;D
Title: Re: Re: VonBlogenstein
Post by: marky_d on December 25, 2013, 08:41:44 am
http://www.dadgum.com/giantlist/archive/zookeeper.html (http://www.dadgum.com/giantlist/archive/zookeeper.html)
Title: Re: Re: VonBlogenstein
Post by: up2ng on December 25, 2013, 01:56:22 pm
Just for fun, I went through your info and compiled how many "different" point values there are in the game.  Amazingly, there are actually 40 different amounts of points that can be scored through various actions!  In order from smallest to largest they are:

40
80
100
120
150
250
300
500
600
1000
1200
2000
2500
3000
4000
5000
6000
8000
10000
12000
15000
20000
25000
30000
40000
50000
60000
70000
80000
120000
150000
250000
300000
500000
1000000
2000000
4000000
8000000
15000000
30000000

Quote
I do know the speed scale is limited to 99, but I don't know where it starts.  Someone will help me with this

I'm actually not so sure that the speed is limited to 99, although it cannot be set higher than this to BEGIN a game from within the game's internal configuration settings.  At this point, I am assuming that the speed would actually continue beyond 99 during gameplay if necessary (I can't remember if this was ever tested in MAME, but I'll try to test this again soon).  However, I'm personally curious about how high this can go and what happens when it does reach its limit.  I suspect that it can go as high as 127, or more likely 255, and then it would wrap back around to 0.  Hopefully this could be confirmed within MAME at some point also.

On the default settings, there is one setting with a value of 30 and another setting with a value of 39.  What this means is that the game begins on Round 1 with a speed of 30 and it will increase as evenly as possible until the beginning of Round 7, which will run at a speed of 39.  (This was tested in MAME also but I don't remember the exact progression -- it was something like 30, 32, 33, 35, 36, 38, 39.)  Beginning at Round 7, the speeds increase as you've described:  39, 40, 41, 42, 40, 41, 42, 43, 41, 42, 43, 44, 42 ...

Quote
To consistently pass the Invisible Coconut board with ease, players must develop a patterned approach.

I'm not sure that I totally agree with this, although it does help to pattern the first few jumps.  As far as I know, there is no pattern that will get you all the way to the very top 100% of the time -- after the first 3 jumps or so there seems to be some variation in the length and frequency of the platforms so that the highest moving platform is sometimes missed.

However, there are techniques in how to perform the jumps when not using a pattern that greatly increase your chances of moving up from one level to the next.  This is developed mostly through experience and trial and error.

Quote
[EDIT] The varying markers of last animal exit are indicative of the real time length of each Round's timer.  I haven't checked this, but it's quite possible the last animal exits at the same real time on each Round- i.e. the 70K Lion board is the longest in the game.[EDIT]  Armed with this information it becomes a lot easier to know when it is safe to move freely around the entire perimeter.

I'm not sure about this, and it WOULD be useful to do some testing to nail down this info.

First of all, we should be careful to distinguish between real time and Timer time (there's probably a better phrase for that).  What I mean is, real time by definition is always running.  However, the game itself (and the Timer time) seems to "pause" every time that the net is used to capture an animal and return it to the cage.  Therefore, it is quite possible that the last animal may seem to appear much sooner if the board is played without using any nets for some reason than if the first net is used to "reverse" all of the animals which could involve 20 - 30 captures.  This would indicate that the last animal spawn is based on Timer time and NOT real time.  If instead it was based on real time, then depending on how the net is used the last animal will appear when the Timer is at quite a different point along the fuse.  This sort of thing should be easy to test.

If I had to guess, I believe the last animal actually spawns EARLIER on Round 10 than on Round 7 even though the Round itself is actually longer -- this may be an illusion though since the faster game speed may make it seem like time is slowing down.

As sort of an unrelated example of the difference between real time and Timer time, it should be noted that the expiration of the net appears to be based on Timer time.  Right before the net is about to expire there is an audible warning jingle.  Once this is heard, you seem to have about 1 second before losing the net as long as you are not capturing any animals in this process (in which case it would be 1 second in real time and also 1 second in Timer time since these are the same when no captures have occurred).  But, it is sometimes possible to capture 5 or 6 animals AFTER the warning jingle is heard, which could easily take 3 or 4 seconds real time, but the game is "paused" during most of this time and therefore only 1 second has elapsed from the Timer during this time.

Great stuff, let's keep this going!
Title: Re: Re: VonBlogenstein
Post by: ChrisP on December 25, 2013, 02:41:10 pm
I zooped my pants when I saw that post.
Title: Re: Re: VonBlogenstein
Post by: up2ng on December 26, 2013, 09:33:35 pm
So I fired up a game of Zookeeper tonight . . .

New personal best!!

42,801,050 -- See attached.
Title: Re: Re: VonBlogenstein
Post by: f_symbols on December 27, 2013, 05:50:43 am
Yer Yer! well done Dean.  Keep on it, 100m or bust

EDIT:  Thanks again Ross for putting together this hot summary set.  Hopefully we can get some players to jump more lions and less barrels :D
Title: Re: Re: VonBlogenstein
Post by: xelnia on December 27, 2013, 09:43:50 am
New personal best!!

Awesome Dean. Looking forward to seeing you and Ross run wild with this game.
Title: Re: Re: VonBlogenstein
Post by: VON on December 30, 2013, 09:11:26 pm
So I fired up a game of Zookeeper tonight . . .

New personal best!!

42,801,050 -- See attached.

Kaboom.  Congrats sir!

Dean's game here gives me the perfect opportunity to discuss Round scoring average and the trade-off between actively hunting big jumps and playing safely...

I believe Dean's 43mill game ended on Round 50, which gives him a strict Round/Score average of 860K.  However, the first 6 Rounds are relatively low scoring and are not part of the Loop, so it may be better to estimate scoring averages after discounting the first 6 Rounds.  Of course, any Round/Score average also discounts the points earned on Coconuts and Escalators, so including the first 6 Rounds in estimations may balance the scoring average.  If the first 6 Rounds are discounted, Dean's scoring average is very close to 1mill per Round.

For comparison, my recent PB of 30mill (http://www.twitch.tv/dwwnp/c/3436128 (http://www.twitch.tv/dwwnp/c/3436128)) ended on Round 34, which gives me a strict average of 880K and an adjusted average over 1mill per Round. 

In terms of scoring average, the difference between these two games is minimal.  In terms of style or approach, the main difference is that I actively hunt big jumps on the 70K Lion boards while Dean seems content to play it a little safer.

Generally speaking, active hunting of big jumps gambles with both points and survival.  Intentionally delaying nets and trying to raw dog big jumps is risky.  Additionally, the big jumps don't always materialize and hunting them can be detrimental to the Lion capture rate.  For me, this gamble is worth it.  For Dean, I believe he's currently more interested in clearing as many Rounds as possible.  This is a big Zoo Keeper question: 30 million jump or marathon?

I perfectly understand just how infrequently 30 million jumps materialize -- even when I'm actively trying to forge them/look for them --  but I also understand what even a single 30 million jump would do to my scoring averages.  Hugeness.

Now I need to get back to playing.  I'm getting a lot better at spotting big jump opportunities, so hopefully I will land a few really big jumps to help distort my scoring average.
Title: Re: Re: VonBlogenstein
Post by: VON on January 11, 2014, 05:33:25 am
I got a second 30 million jump tonight, although unfortunately it was again from a savestate.

The jump was nearly identical to my first 30 million jump: it occurred on a 70K Lion board, and was the product of allowing two groups of animals -- distinct in their respective speeds -- to merge.

I set up the groupings just as I've shown in my previous 70K Lion board videos: using the 2nd net to reverse the animals and the 3rd net to jump the group of respawns.  I think I grabbed a 2 million jump off the 3rd net, clearing the entire group of faster animals.  I then doubled back with the 3rd net and caged any of the group that had begun to fall behind the pack, effectively regrouping the faster animals.  I then positioned myself to raw dog a big jump try once the pack of faster animals began to merge with the pack of slower animals.  The grouping was near perfect, mostly because the pack of slow animals was comprised of elephants only, which meant there was little to no separation between the time of the of the 3rd net jump and the time it took the faster animals to circle the wall.  Regardless of the tight grouping, I still hit the last animal and died, but was still awarded the 30 million points.

I recognize explaining this approach with prose is not ideal, but I can't at the moment think of a diagram that would illustrate things any better - I really just need to land one of these suckers in a recorded session and post the video.  The reason I'm posting at all is just to say: there seems to be a real system for forging these monster jumps, and that is good news!  Of course, as stated above, I was lucky to even have two distinct groups of animals form, and luckier still that they stayed grouped tightly enough for long enough that I could identify the big jump opportunity.  I take care to randomize the savestated boards I play by feeding input before the Round begins, so these jumps are not the result of continuous replays of the same exact board.  These types of boards -- boards where 30 million point jumps are even possible -- only come along every once in awhile and you have to be ready to seize the moment. 
Title: Re: Re: VonBlogenstein
Post by: kalel on January 14, 2014, 11:35:41 pm
THIS IS TO COMPLEX FOR MY TINY BRAIN  :o   and sweet job on the 30 mill jumps ross :)
Title: Re: Re: VonBlogenstein
Post by: ripper on January 17, 2014, 11:56:03 am
Is this the 100 Million Pt. March?   ;D

Really NICE posting Von!  I do love this game even though I don't play it very much.  However, I hope to really get back into it in the near future once I'm at a stand still point with Mario bros.
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: JNugent on February 13, 2014, 12:55:32 pm
I love Zoo Keeper.  I play it quite often, usually at the end of a CK/DK session.  I got my first 1,000,000 point jump a couple of weeks ago.

I apologize for the break in the video, but you get the idea...

http://www.twitch.tv/jnugent74/c/3632586 (http://www.twitch.tv/jnugent74/c/3632586)

Can someone embed this video?  I'm not sure how.
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: JCHarrist on February 13, 2014, 01:13:49 pm

Can someone embed this video?  I'm not sure how.

Most videos embed automatically(Youtube, etc.) but I had to turn off Twitch and Justin emdedding because anytime someone posted a link to a channel it would embed the live stream. Makes a real mess of the streamer list page. ;)
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: JNugent on February 16, 2014, 04:19:03 am
Gotcha Jeff.  Ross, thanks for the awesome info on ZK.  I haven't even gotten through all of it yet.  I wonder how many on DKF play ZK regularly? 
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: VON on April 30, 2014, 05:59:07 pm
Zoo Keeper is full of weird "bugs", and almost all of them work against the player, however, I just saw a "bug" new to me that I would love to be a common occurrence in all my games going forward...

I was awarded 15 million points for jumping only 14 animals!

Bank error in my favor -- nice one Zoo Keeper.  Keep it up and maybe we can be friends after all.
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: Shnypz on May 01, 2014, 07:52:14 am
I love zookeeper, great write-up. All this Zookeeper talk is making want to repair my taito gameroom classics machine.
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: up2ng on May 01, 2014, 01:24:30 pm
I think that's actually a pretty consistent feature in ZK that can be exploited, similar to "claiming your points" in DK.  If you've seen my ZK streams you'll see that there are two spots on Round 1 where I am often awarded 100 points on a jump WITHOUT jumping over the elephant.  I'm not sure if the cause is exactly the same as in DK or if it works 100% but I do believe that John is aware of this and specifically uses it to his advantage.
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: johnbart on May 03, 2014, 05:03:28 pm
That could explain the reason why he refuses to show his gameplay.  That would be really sad if his technique comes down to an exploit that he's trying to keep secret. 
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: marinomitch13 on May 04, 2014, 08:31:44 am
This belongs here. Well done, George!

Keeper of Hearts (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9oaFo4lyyg#)
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: VON on May 26, 2014, 04:23:04 am
I was awarded 15 million points for jumping only 14 animals!

Bank error in my favor -- nice one Zoo Keeper.  Keep it up and maybe we can be friends after all.

Same sorta thing happened, only this time I was awarded 30 million for jumping only 15 animals.

The 16th animal was completely separate from the pack, so I see no simple way of explaining why the game gave me credit for jumping 16.

Maybe I somehow got credit for jumping the same animal twice??  Or probably just Zoo Keeper being Zoo Keeper.
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: marky_d on May 26, 2014, 06:23:49 am
Maybe right as an animal turns a corner the game draws 2 sprites in the same frame and you get credit for two animals. It's probably ZK being ZK.
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: VON on June 04, 2014, 12:17:52 am
Booya!

Twitch --> http://www.twitch.tv/dwwnp/c/4394647 (http://www.twitch.tv/dwwnp/c/4394647)

MARP --> http://replay.marpirc.net/r/zookeep (http://replay.marpirc.net/r/zookeep)
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: Monstabonza on June 04, 2014, 01:01:36 am
By that score I can tell you worked out the moods <lexmark>

Nah in all seriousness great score.
Congrats.
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: johnbart on June 04, 2014, 01:57:24 am
Yeah baby.  Huge score and I envision a bigger one soon.  Long live the moods!
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: syscrusher on June 04, 2014, 02:06:17 am
Well done, Ross!  Pleasure to watch...you rock!
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: marinomitch13 on June 04, 2014, 02:53:41 am
Nice, Ross! I'm bummed I missed seeing this live.  BibleThump
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: Dk_madness on June 04, 2014, 04:38:02 am
Huge Ross!!! Congrats!!
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: TheSunshineFund on June 04, 2014, 04:57:13 am
Love it.

Kong Off, arcade WR pls.  thx.
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: Barra on June 04, 2014, 06:11:19 am
Nice one Ross well done maate
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: hchien on June 04, 2014, 07:38:57 am
Woah, nice score.  Better play again while ZK is in a good mood.
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: tilt on June 04, 2014, 10:18:09 am
Great game Ross!  Loved watching it live.  Thanks for the Centipede help too!
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: tudose on June 04, 2014, 11:09:05 am
wowwwwww rossyyyyyy thats a huge score! congrats, sir Kreygasm
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: f_symbols on June 04, 2014, 12:09:54 pm
 Kreygasm Kreygasm Kreygasm

This game was awesome, might I recommend the twitch highlight, so that one may experience the awesomeness that occurred during the climax of bohemian rhapsody.  Congrats Rossay on your hard-earned size.
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: danman123456 on June 04, 2014, 01:28:24 pm
 BibleThump Such hugeness...
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: fruitygayspaghetti on June 05, 2014, 01:06:40 am
got em
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: VON on June 22, 2014, 06:48:07 pm
Here's a decent Zoo Keeper highlight: http://www.twitch.tv/dwwnp/c/4505447 (http://www.twitch.tv/dwwnp/c/4505447)

This video illustrates my general 70K Lion Board tactics pretty well.

I bonenheimered my first chance at an 8 million jump (I say 4 million in the video, but it was clearly an 8 million point jump opportunity), and then probably bonenheimered a chance at a 15 million point jump (I got the 8 million jump, but you can see there might have been a chance to incorporate the wrong way camel).  Nevertheless, the general strategy is well demonstrated.
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: alumbrada on June 22, 2014, 07:16:43 pm
Nevertheless, the general strategy is well demonstrated.

Nice video, it really shows your mastery of the John Move.
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: VON on September 03, 2014, 09:59:58 pm
15 million point jump hype Kreygasm http://www.twitch.tv/dwwnp/c/5061066 (http://www.twitch.tv/dwwnp/c/5061066)

Unfortunately this game assploded on the very next Round FailFish, but there will be other big jumps in my future.
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: ChrisP on September 03, 2014, 10:57:54 pm
Bite the pillow, I'm going in dry!!!!  Kreygasm
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: tudose on September 03, 2014, 11:45:08 pm
so sick Kreygasm BibleThump
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: danman123456 on September 04, 2014, 06:39:44 am
FK Sweet and that literally was about 0.5 seconds from a 30 million jump that Lion ALMOST made it into the jump. RAWWWWWWWWWW DIGGGITY DOG!!!!
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: VON on October 31, 2014, 04:04:11 pm
Errata:

The Zoo Keeper bezel explicitly names the Rounds as "Brick Adventure", the coconut boards as "Ledge Adventure", and the escalators as "Escalator Adventure".

Also, there's a rhinoceros pictured on the Zoo Keeper CPO, so I've been wrong calling that animal a boar this whole time.
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: TheSunshineFund on November 03, 2014, 05:10:12 am
Just noticed this post on LAGDC

http://www.classicarcadegaming.com/forums/index.php?topic=846.msg71408;topicseen#msg71408 (http://www.classicarcadegaming.com/forums/index.php?topic=846.msg71408;topicseen#msg71408)

If John plays out every game start as he proclaims in the post, why would there be 2 1k scores in the today's table.  Is it possible that there is a certain animal combination or sequence that appears early on that allows for some sort of future prediction on a board of some consequence later on and if that does not present itself he kills off his game at 1k for some reason?   <Mruczek>
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: marky_d on November 03, 2014, 06:29:19 am
Exactly at 1k. Twice, at least. Very interesting... <Mruczek>
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: TheSunshineFund on November 03, 2014, 09:40:14 am
I've have to say, it seems like there is some sort of conspiracy.   <Mruczek>
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: timhett on November 03, 2014, 10:36:11 am
I read that while thread a while back, start to finish. My conclusion, not being an expert on the game, is that he is full of it. It's either a lot of luck mixed in with the skill or some sort of gimmicky exploitation of a glitch. All that talk of inputs and moods and such feels like BS or obfuscation. <stirpot>
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: danman123456 on November 03, 2014, 12:46:52 pm
Honestly someone just crushing this guys score would be a good feeling. His posts just ooze butthead syndrome. I've never met or talked to him so I am being slightly judgmental but wow....

Dan
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: ripper on February 14, 2015, 04:22:02 pm
Honestly someone just crushing this guys score would be a good feeling. His posts just ooze butthead syndrome. I've never met or talked to him so I am being slightly judgmental but wow....

Dan

It's going to take a lot more now to crush John's score.  He is laying claim to getting 155M and reaching levels in the mid 60's.  The game can possibly be marathoned from some new findings John posted about. I'm beginning to wonder if and when someone will get 200M.

http://www.classicarcadegaming.com/forums/index.php/topic,846.1200.html (http://www.classicarcadegaming.com/forums/index.php/topic,846.1200.html)
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: TheSunshineFund on February 14, 2015, 07:13:52 pm


It's going to take a lot more now to crush John's score.  He is laying claim to getting 155M and reaching levels in the mid 60's.

Luckily we are now in an age of publicly verified scores.  Should be a fun watch.
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: ripper on February 15, 2015, 04:33:22 am


It's going to take a lot more now to crush John's score.  He is laying claim to getting 155M and reaching levels in the mid 60's.

Luckily we are now in an age of publicly verified scores.  Should be a fun watch.

Well, if you read the thread you will also see that he DIDN'T record his game.  It was a practice game that ended up being real good.  I think he recorded the last few levels and that would be cool to see but it wouldn't count in the world of TG at least.  Also, if he does this again and records the game he could still submit it to CAG and wouldn't have to show it to anyone.
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: marinomitch13 on February 15, 2015, 04:51:36 am
If it is true that the game plays easier later on (and especially if it cycles), maybe a more cautious, marathon-like strategy will start to be employed.
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: ripper on February 15, 2015, 04:55:52 am
If it is true that the game plays easier later on (and especially if it cycles), maybe a more cautious, marathon-like strategy will start to be employed.

Exactly!  It very well may change the entire game.  Instead of going for the bigger jumps, THINKING your time is limited, you may be more cautious now and try to play longer.  However, didn't Dean already try to do this and it didn't quite work out for him?
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: TheSunshineFund on February 15, 2015, 08:06:13 am
Where's the ZK safe spot where you can setup a camera during the game?
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: marinomitch13 on February 15, 2015, 12:15:54 pm
If it is true that the game plays easier later on (and especially if it cycles), maybe a more cautious, marathon-like strategy will start to be employed.

Exactly!  It very well may change the entire game.  Instead of going for the bigger jumps, THINKING your time is limited, you may be more cautious now and try to play longer.  However, didn't Dean already try to do this and it didn't quite work out for him?

Dean plays pretty safe, but he still loses several lives per game trying to force bigger jumps. I think the same is true for Ross (Ross, maybe you can pipe in here with your thoughts on how to make gameplay safer than what you've currently been using). If I recall, often times, losing a life due to trying to force a big jump causes replaying the board to be a lot harder than the first time around -therefore, often, multiple lives are lost. These sub-ideal situations could probably be prevented greatly with safer play.
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: VON on February 15, 2015, 04:35:52 pm
Well, first we have to independently verify whether the speed rollover is even a real thing.  Lexmark isn't exactly a trustworthy source of information, and his claim does not line up with what is known about how the speed increments.

I've been meaning to chat with Dean about this -- as he already has savestates set up for some of the later Rounds -- but I haven't seem him online since Lexmark dropped his news.

If the speed rollover can be confirmed, then there is definitely room to discuss new strategy, but if it cannot be replicated, as I expect, then at least we can dismiss any future Lexmark claims.

 <stirpot>  <popcorn>
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: tilt on February 15, 2015, 06:03:03 pm
Well, first we have to independently verify whether the speed rollover is even a real thing.  Lexmark isn't exactly a trustworthy source of information, and his claim does not line up with what is known about how the speed increments.

I've been meaning to chat with Dean about this -- as he already has savestates set up for some of the later Rounds -- but I haven't seem him online since Lexmark dropped his news.

If the speed rollover can be confirmed, then there is definitely room to discuss new strategy, but if it cannot be replicated, as I expect, then at least we can dismiss any future Lexmark claims.

 <stirpot>  <popcorn>
Excited to see what comes out of this... <Tim>
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: 1500points on February 15, 2015, 07:36:45 pm
About the difficulty resetting.  A mamedev could assess this for you.  I have asked Sean R but he doesn't have time to dig into a new platform like ZK.

Defender on max difficulty has a math anomaly on wave 161 where the game goes super easy for that wave. It has to do with how the difficulty and wave are calculated and a rollover with a number.  Don H confirmed a YT vid report of it.

reminds me of Tut where maze 17 is back to maze 1 difficulty.

As far as CAG claims, I'm enjoying the fact that guys here are making ZK seems fun and Jace has made ZK have a public mystique.
Time to setup an actual ZK exhibition on TGL and get people excited beyond just CAGDC and DKF.....

Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: ripper on February 19, 2015, 11:28:18 am
Well, first we have to independently verify whether the speed rollover is even a real thing.  Lexmark isn't exactly a trustworthy source of information, and his claim does not line up with what is known about how the speed increments.

I've been meaning to chat with Dean about this -- as he already has savestates set up for some of the later Rounds -- but I haven't seem him online since Lexmark dropped his news.

If the speed rollover can be confirmed, then there is definitely room to discuss new strategy, but if it cannot be replicated, as I expect, then at least we can dismiss any future Lexmark claims.

 <stirpot>  <popcorn>

I have to admit that I sort of believe what Lexmark is saying.  He even claims to have filmed the last so many boards so he could indeed prove which level he finished his game on, possibly.  However, I'm not sure ZK even shows which level you are really on so maybe he couldn't prove it?  However, If the animals do indeed slow down then this all makes since.  Has anyone else ever reached level 62-65?  The video may show this as well.  The problem is Lexmark won't put out a video of his play.   I have a good feeling ZK is going to jump back in the limelight once again.
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: danman123456 on February 19, 2015, 01:13:46 pm
Well, first we have to independently verify whether the speed rollover is even a real thing.  Lexmark isn't exactly a trustworthy source of information, and his claim does not line up with what is known about how the speed increments.

I've been meaning to chat with Dean about this -- as he already has savestates set up for some of the later Rounds -- but I haven't seem him online since Lexmark dropped his news.

If the speed rollover can be confirmed, then there is definitely room to discuss new strategy, but if it cannot be replicated, as I expect, then at least we can dismiss any future Lexmark claims.

 <stirpot>  <popcorn>

I have to admit that I sort of believe what Lexmark is saying.  He even claims to have filmed the last so many boards so he could indeed prove which level he finished his game on, possibly.  However, I'm not sure ZK even shows which level you are really on so maybe he couldn't prove it?  However, If the animals do indeed slow down then this all makes since.  Has anyone else ever reached level 62-65?  The video may show this as well.  The problem is Lexmark won't put out a video of his play.   I have a good feeling ZK is going to jump back in the limelight once again.

And that right there is the crux of the issue. Stop being a brat and just say "look everyone I crushed this game and here is the video showing it"... To be "hiding" his play on a game that is 30+ years old that maybe 5 people actually give a rats ass about is so damn childish I cannot even begin to describe it. At this point I have no choice but to believe its some type of exploit he has figured out that he doesn't want to share because he knows that other guys would destroy his score (but soooooooooooooooooooooooo freaking what if they do) or call him out on it as bogus. There just isn't any other explanation because quite frankly who cares you got the world record in ZooKeeper? SHARE it instead of just sticking your finger in the eye of everyone who would actually appreciate watching something like that...
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: ripper on February 19, 2015, 01:37:43 pm
Well, first we have to independently verify whether the speed rollover is even a real thing.  Lexmark isn't exactly a trustworthy source of information, and his claim does not line up with what is known about how the speed increments.

I've been meaning to chat with Dean about this -- as he already has savestates set up for some of the later Rounds -- but I haven't seem him online since Lexmark dropped his news.

If the speed rollover can be confirmed, then there is definitely room to discuss new strategy, but if it cannot be replicated, as I expect, then at least we can dismiss any future Lexmark claims.

 <stirpot>  <popcorn>

I have to admit that I sort of believe what Lexmark is saying.  He even claims to have filmed the last so many boards so he could indeed prove which level he finished his game on, possibly.  However, I'm not sure ZK even shows which level you are really on so maybe he couldn't prove it?  However, If the animals do indeed slow down then this all makes since.  Has anyone else ever reached level 62-65?  The video may show this as well.  The problem is Lexmark won't put out a video of his play.   I have a good feeling ZK is going to jump back in the limelight once again.

And that right there is the crux of the issue. Stop being a brat and just say "look everyone I crushed this game and here is the video showing it"... To be "hiding" his play on a game that is 30+ years old that maybe 5 people actually give a rats ass about is so damn childish I cannot even begin to describe it. At this point I have no choice but to believe its some type of exploit he has figured out that he doesn't want to share because he knows that other guys would destroy his score (but soooooooooooooooooooooooo freaking what if they do) or call him out on it as bogus. There just isn't any other explanation because quite frankly who cares you got the world record in ZooKeeper? SHARE it instead of just sticking your finger in the eye of everyone who would actually appreciate watching something like that...

It's always been this way with game videos up until just recently.  Now, a lot of people were still showing their videos years ago but a lot were still hidden.  I just don't think he will submit to TG anyway.  TG would embrace a 100M+ score, make a front page story and give him a live interview. I think he will remain hiding it and submit to another place instead.
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: johnbart on February 19, 2015, 04:09:49 pm
I fully agree with Dan but I also believe that he probably did get the score legitimately.  He may have some trick that makes it easier to get or he may have just figured something out about the game that no one else has seen.

Either way hiding the game play is something that kills competition on a game and keeps the game in the shadows.  Counter productive to the hobby as a whole.  Do things that make other people want to play the games, don't do things that make you a dick.
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: jumpman on February 19, 2015, 05:58:04 pm
What a wealth of info on zk. Thanks for putting this together. After 3 years of struggling to get my pcbs repaired, repinning entire harness, dealing with bad power supplies, bad ribbon cables,monitor sync issues I got it all working this week. I almost gave up on my zk several times. Now it's time to play! I have only played for 2 days and love it. I'm not even a 200k player yet but hopefully break 1M soon. Who here likes to stream zk? Would love to watch.
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: homerwannabee on February 19, 2015, 06:08:49 pm
Basically he seems to think of his game play as a secret recipe like Coca-Cola or some cookie recipe that is kept for several generations in the family.  What he fails to understand though is unlike other "Secret recipe's", his game play can't be enjoyed by the public.
It probably has to do with the fact that the former World Record holders didn't share their game play either.  I.e the Cram brothers.  So he had to start at square one with this game.
For whatever reason this was much more the norm back in the day.  Things can change though.  At one point in time all 3 Donkey Kong's had game play that was not made available to the public.  So with time, things can change.  Hey even Zoo Keeper has had more great game play shown because of Dean Saglio, and Ross Benzinger.  So that's a plus.
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: Verminator on April 13, 2015, 07:34:08 pm
This is an amazing thread... thanks everyone for sharing their tips and strategies.

Zoo Keeper is my favorite classic arcade game by far but my high score is "only" about 3.1 million (with a max 120,000 point jump, but I am now more optimistic I can attain higher point jumps after watching the videos).

I plan on reading and re-reading and watching and re-watching. It's just too bad the game hardware itself is so unreliable.

Finally, I'll make my contribution to the thread to say the first level is the "Root Beer Level" and not the "Beer Level". It says "Get the Root Beer" in attract mode!  ;D
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: VON on April 13, 2015, 10:12:00 pm
Haha yeah.  I've also called the rhino a boar for most of this thread, even though there's clearly a rhino on the CP artwork FailFish  But c'mon, who's ever seen a pink rhino (and it's grey on the CP!)?

Anyways, welcome, sir.  Best of luck to you in your ZK endeavors, and I still stream ZK from time to time so stop by and say hello.

P.S. I swear I'll finish my digging into Lexderp's claims soon.
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: ripper on April 14, 2015, 02:25:22 am
P.S. I swear I'll finish my digging into Lexderp's claims soon.

You must mean the claims about 155M and the animal speeds starting over in the higher rounds?
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: up2ng on April 14, 2015, 05:37:14 pm
. . . and the animal speeds starting over in the higher rounds?

This is false.  ;-)
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: TheSunshineFund on April 14, 2015, 05:51:45 pm
Ha ha ole Lexie hated "This is false" I reckon BITD
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: Verminator on April 14, 2015, 07:07:10 pm
Thanks guys!

I'll make another contribution... on the Bonus Keeper Level, you can position yourself at specific spots on the second and third platform that will allow you to make two straight line jumps successfully. On Level 2, go back as far as possible. On Level 3, position the keeper back about 40% of the way to the back edge. On Level 4, don't move the keeper at all, jump right away, then reverse the keeper slightly and make the second jump.

If I have accomplished anything, it is mastery of the Bonus Keeper Level!  8)
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: VON on April 14, 2015, 07:27:10 pm
If I have accomplished anything, it is mastery of the Bonus Keeper Level!  8)

That's a really good thing to have mastered, actually.

The "bonus" stages of Zoo Keeper have killed many a Zeke over the years.

. . . and the animal speeds starting over in the higher rounds?

This is false.  ;-)

Yes, it is false, or at the very least it is not tied to Round number.

And in true Lexderp fashion I will conclude by saying that I will elaborate on this matter at a later date. :D  (Truth is I haven't completely finished assessing Derpenheimer's claims, so I want to wait until I can make one comprehensive post)
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: gstrain on April 15, 2015, 10:38:27 pm
This is an amazing thread... thanks everyone for sharing their tips and strategies.
For a less informative but more drama filled Zoo Keeper thread, try http://www.classicarcadegaming.com/forums/index.php/topic,846 (http://www.classicarcadegaming.com/forums/index.php/topic,846)

You won't learn very much, if anything, about tips and strategies, but bring the popcorn and watch the drama unfold.  Block out a couple of hours if you want to enjoy the whole thread.

-George
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: ripper on April 16, 2015, 02:36:49 am
This is an amazing thread... thanks everyone for sharing their tips and strategies.
For a less informative but more drama filled Zoo Keeper thread, try http://www.classicarcadegaming.com/forums/index.php/topic,846 (http://www.classicarcadegaming.com/forums/index.php/topic,846)

You won't learn very much, if anything, about tips and strategies, but bring the popcorn and watch the drama unfold.  Block out a couple of hours if you want to enjoy the whole thread.

-George

I know Von and myself know about that thread too.  We have been mentioning some things in this thread about John's claims.  Some may be true and some may be false.  The recent 155M claim is still a mystery.  No video proof and not doing it since that time means something may not be right at all.
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: Verminator on April 18, 2015, 11:28:57 pm
This is an amazing thread... thanks everyone for sharing their tips and strategies.
For a less informative but more drama filled Zoo Keeper thread, try http://www.classicarcadegaming.com/forums/index.php/topic,846 (http://www.classicarcadegaming.com/forums/index.php/topic,846)

You won't learn very much, if anything, about tips and strategies, but bring the popcorn and watch the drama unfold.  Block out a couple of hours if you want to enjoy the whole thread.

-George

Wow... thanks! Before I read all 82 pages of that discussion, is Zoo Keeper really more difficult in MAME than the arcade version??
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: ripper on April 19, 2015, 04:33:35 am
Wow... thanks! Before I read all 82 pages of that discussion, is Zoo Keeper really more difficult in MAME than the arcade version??

Since ZK is such a rare game I'm not sure if to many people on here have even seen one in person.  I've played it on MAME and on arcade but the arcade was back in 1984 or so.  I couldn't tell you the difference as it was so long ago.
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: Verminator on April 19, 2015, 08:45:30 pm
I went to Galloping Ghost in Brookfield and they had acquired an original cab, it was working a few weeks ago, and it is already down. They are having issues with the board. I have not seen a working arcade version of Zoo Keeper since about 1992 and it is depressing!  :'(
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: TheSunshineFund on April 19, 2015, 09:29:50 pm
Knock on wood my ZK has been solid for about 5 years now.
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: marky_d on April 19, 2015, 09:53:09 pm

Since ZK is such a rare game I'm not sure if to many people on here have even seen one in person.  I've played it on MAME and on arcade but the arcade was back in 1984 or so.  I couldn't tell you the difference as it was so long ago.

An arcade very close to me had one in the mid to late 80s and myself and a friend of mine would play the sht out of it. It's funny because the game didn't get much play from others from what I could tell, but we were totally addicted.
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: VON on April 20, 2015, 12:20:04 am
is Zoo Keeper really more difficult in MAME than the arcade version??

The two play identical as far I can tell.

Some people feel it's slightly faster in MAME, but I've never noticed.  Then again, I've played way more on MAME than on a cab.
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: Verminator on April 20, 2015, 06:46:57 pm
Then the solution is obvious... find a private collector with a Zoo Keeper instead of a public place where it is subject to the abuse of the general public. By the way, I saw the Galloping Ghost Zoo Keeper cabinet and it is an original in very good condition... except the working board part! :(

Edit: The cabinet was actually converted to something else and Doc Mack reconverted it to the original... he deserves a lot of credit because he has been really focused on replacing his games with original cabinets.
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: Verminator on May 03, 2015, 12:01:52 am
I was not having a good game of Zoo Keeper tonight and decided to kill off my final life... then I proceeded to run through five consecutive animals before my game ended. What is up with that?  <confused>
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: VON on May 03, 2015, 03:02:02 pm
I was not having a good game of Zoo Keeper tonight and decided to kill off my final life... then I proceeded to run through five consecutive animals before my game ended. What is up with that?  <confused>

Someone will have to look at the code to properly answer what is going on with the Zoo Keeper collision detection.  I have my theories, but no hard facts.
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: Verminator on May 03, 2015, 05:45:09 pm
Is the collision detection just plain poor on this game? It almost seems like I can pull off more tricks to avoid animals in later rounds when they move faster.
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: jumpman on May 04, 2015, 07:05:36 am
Is it just me or does the collision detection seem different when your in the corners?
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: DonkeyShlong on December 31, 2019, 10:39:45 am
Thread...awaken!!

I'm moving towards this game now as I find it more fun than DK. Any pros care to help with broken links and tips?

When playing on MAME, I'm finding that even if I run right then left to the bottom, the animals aren't all coming out in the same direction like some videos on YouTube. Do I have a bad rom? I've seen the same techniques on a MAME record on YouTube so it seems like it emulates it well.
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: VON on December 31, 2019, 05:50:35 pm
Any pros care to help with broken links and tips?

I fixed most of the pics and links in the first post, though if there's a specific link from a later post you'd like fixed, let me know. I moved the images to Imgur because Photobucket is a shit stain, but I'm uncertain if this will preserve them indefinitely. The twitch links will undoubtedly rot in under a year -- why Twitch, why!? -- but the linked clips will forever be saved in the Videos section of my Twitch page: https://www.twitch.tv/dwwnp.

When playing on MAME, I'm finding that even if I run right then left to the bottom, the animals aren't all coming out in the same direction like some videos on YouTube. Do I have a bad rom? I've seen the same techniques on a MAME record on YouTube so it seems like it emulates it well.

The juke right at the beginning of a Round is merely to increase the odds that animals will exit the wall favorably -- it is not fail proof. Watch closely at the beginning of any Round and you'll see one common animal trajectory is just a hair clockwise off 12 O'Clock. By juking right you can setup just a sliver of wall that will force animals bouncing near 12 O'clock to carom back towards the open bottom of the wall.

Remember that the direction animals travel is directly tied to their position relative to Zeke as they exit the wall. The animals will always take the furthest route to reach Zeke, so if they're popping out the top right of the wall at the beginning of the Round, that direction will invariably be clockwise.

P.S. I have a ton of unfinished business with this thread and ZK in general. I don't know how much I'll go back and address anything specifically, so please just ask questions or remind me to post something I promised to post 6 years ago. And in the meantime, get Zoo Keepin'! It's a great game. 
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: Barra on December 31, 2019, 08:12:34 pm
I was awarded 15 million points for jumping only 14 animals!

Bank error in my favor -- nice one Zoo Keeper.  Keep it up and maybe we can be friends after all.

Same sorta thing happened, only this time I was awarded 30 million for jumping only 15 animals.

The 16th animal was completely separate from the pack, so I see no simple way of explaining why the game gave me credit for jumping 16.

Maybe I somehow got credit for jumping the same animal twice??  Or probably just Zoo Keeper being Zoo Keeper.

Have you got an INP/highlight of this anywhere?
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: VON on December 31, 2019, 08:59:09 pm
I was awarded 15 million points for jumping only 14 animals!

Bank error in my favor -- nice one Zoo Keeper.  Keep it up and maybe we can be friends after all.

Same sorta thing happened, only this time I was awarded 30 million for jumping only 15 animals.

The 16th animal was completely separate from the pack, so I see no simple way of explaining why the game gave me credit for jumping 16.

Maybe I somehow got credit for jumping the same animal twice??  Or probably just Zoo Keeper being Zoo Keeper.

Have you got an INP/highlight of this anywhere?

No. Savestate practice. I've still never landed a 30 million in a real game. The shenanigans I described above do occur in real games though,... I think. It's only super obvious when most of the animals are in one place, like an 8 or 15 million jump. But yeah it's happened to me in savestate practice many times.
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: DonkeyShlong on January 01, 2020, 01:08:27 am
I was awarded 15 million points for jumping only 14 animals!

Bank error in my favor -- nice one Zoo Keeper.  Keep it up and maybe we can be friends after all.

Same sorta thing happened, only this time I was awarded 30 million for jumping only 15 animals.

The 16th animal was completely separate from the pack, so I see no simple way of explaining why the game gave me credit for jumping 16.

Maybe I somehow got credit for jumping the same animal twice??  Or probably just Zoo Keeper being Zoo Keeper.

Have you got an INP/highlight of this anywhere?

That would be sweet if you did an OBS recording of the INP then uploaded to YouTube. Permanent then too :-)
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: DonkeyShlong on January 01, 2020, 01:42:39 am
Any pros care to help with broken links and tips?

I fixed most of the pics and links in the first post, though if there's a specific link from a later post you'd like fixed, let me know. I moved the images to Imgur because Photobucket is a shit stain, but I'm uncertain if this will preserve them indefinitely. The twitch links will undoubtedly rot in under a year -- why Twitch, why!? -- but the linked clips will forever be saved in the Videos section of my Twitch page: https://www.twitch.tv/dwwnp.

When playing on MAME, I'm finding that even if I run right then left to the bottom, the animals aren't all coming out in the same direction like some videos on YouTube. Do I have a bad rom? I've seen the same techniques on a MAME record on YouTube so it seems like it emulates it well.

The juke right at the beginning of a Round is merely to increase the odds that animals will exit the wall favorably -- it is not fail proof. Watch closely at the beginning of any Round and you'll see one common animal trajectory is just a hair clockwise off 12 O'Clock. By juking right you can setup just a sliver of wall that will force animals bouncing near 12 O'clock to carom back towards the open bottom of the wall.

Remember that the direction animals travel is directly tied to their position relative to Zeke as they exit the wall. The animals will always take the furthest route to reach Zeke, so if they're popping out the top right of the wall at the beginning of the Round, that direction will invariably be clockwise.

P.S. I have a ton of unfinished business with this thread and ZK in general. I don't know how much I'll go back and address anything specifically, so please just ask questions or remind me to post something I promised to post 6 years ago. And in the meantime, get Zoo Keepin'! It's a great game.

Thanks for the quick reply, hope you had a nice Christmas and New Year.

Some really cool videos on your Twitch highlights that I'll take a look at. Is the MAME record on YouTube yours with 47million?
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: Barra on January 02, 2020, 12:06:33 am
I notice that if you clear an animal then juke back the other way you'll still be awarded the points (much like DK I guess), even though you haven't technically jumped over it

Not sure if that has anything to do with it. Also unsure if what Dean described is different than what I'm talking about

Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: DonkeyShlong on April 20, 2020, 11:42:09 am
I'd like to add something to this thread that some may really appreciate.

I've tweaked a ZooKeeper artwork file to blank out the horrendous fit inducing flashing.  These settings will be required for MAME, and I can confirm it works fine with WolfMAME to allow INP recording.

Tab > Slider Controls
Screen Horiz Stretch - 1.096
Screen Vert Stretch - 1.114
Screen Vert Position - 0.008
Resolution of PC - 1920x1080 (May look off if not at this resolution) If so, just tweak the black sections in Photoshop.

Drop zookeep.png into your Artwork folder, voila!

https://ibb.co/pdXNpTg
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: VON on April 20, 2020, 05:48:41 pm
I'd like to add something to this thread that some may really appreciate.

I've tweaked a ZooKeeper artwork file to blank out the horrendous fit inducing flashing.  These settings will be required for MAME, and I can confirm it works fine with WolfMAME to allow INP recording.

Tab > Slider Controls
Screen Horiz Stretch - 1.096
Screen Vert Stretch - 1.114
Screen Vert Position - 0.008
Resolution of PC - 1920x1080 (May look off if not at this resolution) If so, just tweak the black sections in Photoshop.

Drop zookeep.png into your Artwork folder, voila!

https://ibb.co/pdXNpTg

This is honestly such a good idea. Zoo Keeper is like the real life Polybius with that stupid seizure-inducing strobing. Unfortunately I think this sort of modification would get disqualified by most scorekeepers, but maybe an official "fixed" Zoo Keeper rom could eventually become a thing.

What are people's thoughts on modifying game aesthetics?

It would be easy to argue -- and probably accurate -- that the Zoo Keeper strobing adds to the difficulty of the game. It most definitely does not add to the fun.

Can we think of other examples where changing game aesthetics would affect difficulty?
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: Barra on April 20, 2020, 06:16:10 pm
It's a fantastic idea and I've used something similar in the past for vector games (increasing beam intensity). Makes the games more fun and easier to play.

If you stretch the screen in zookeeper while recording, the same won't happen when watching back the inp. It may be detectable if you have the knowledge to dig a bit deeper into it?

Is any of this possible with an original cab/monitors?
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: DonkeyShlong on April 21, 2020, 01:14:31 am
Thanks guys. Hope it helps.  :)

For me, it doesn't decrease the difficulty as it's not directly in the field of vision. What it does so, is make me not want to try push high scores as it's damn annoying. If someone could fix the ROM and agree to accept scores, I guess that would be even better!

Another reason it's annoying is catching up on your streams Ross. When chilling watching at night, even with my phones screen on minimum brightness, the entire room is flashing like a sodding disco  ;D
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: DonkeyShlong on April 21, 2020, 08:05:55 am
If you stretch the screen in zookeeper while recording, the same won't happen when watching back the inp. It may be detectable if you have the knowledge to dig a bit deeper into it?

You are correct. It plays just fine, but does indeed show the flashing still. What's your thoughts on accepting scores with it?
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: muscleandfitness on April 25, 2020, 08:40:24 am
omg omg omg I Love my Rossy no homeo lit yer buddy wht da ..lit. brian allen NOISES
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: homerwannabee on April 25, 2020, 02:30:54 pm
omg omg omg I Love my Rossy no homeo lit yer buddy wht da ..lit. brian allen NOISES
Please play Zookeeper Allen!
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: DonkeyShlong on April 25, 2020, 02:34:52 pm
omg omg omg I Love my Rossy no homeo lit yer buddy wht da ..lit. brian allen NOISES
Please play Zookeeper Allen!

Yea Allen. Come on, break the internet with your swearing. You think DK is infuriating? Wait until you lose all your lives on the effing bonus round!
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: VON on January 04, 2021, 12:09:29 am
Big! Big! Big!

Super clean 30 million jump around 12:+



Some studly play from Bryan Wagner.
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: bryguy on February 11, 2021, 02:57:13 pm
Thank you Ross! I'll be uploading the 15+30 million jumps on round 22 of my 78 million record game on YouTube.
Bryan
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: bryguy on February 11, 2021, 02:59:09 pm
Your write-up of Zoo Keeper is very impressive BTW!
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: VON on February 11, 2021, 05:01:14 pm
Hey Bryan! Welcome to DKF and congrats on your massive Zoo Keeper score. That board with the 15 and 30 million jumps was a thing of beauty.

I hope you'll keep pushing onward to 100 million +  It's gonna be a tough slog for sure but I think with some consistently deep games it is a very real possibility.

Awesome stuff, sir.
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: bensweeneyonbass on February 11, 2021, 07:01:18 pm
BigBigBig  Kreygasm
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: Prow on February 11, 2021, 09:34:21 pm
Thank you Ross! I'll be uploading the 15+30 million jumps on round 22 of my 78 million record game on YouTube.
Bryan
Amazing! Are you going to upload the whole 78M game to YouTube?
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: bryguy on February 12, 2021, 07:30:24 am
Hey Bryan! Welcome to DKF and congrats on your massive Zoo Keeper score. That board with the 15 and 30 million jumps was a thing of beauty.

I hope you'll keep pushing onward to 100 million +  It's gonna be a tough slog for sure but I think with some consistently deep games it is a very real possibility.

Awesome stuff, sir.
Thanks much. I'm taking a break from pushing up the score on MAME. Going to try to refine some techniques first. I'll be securing an arcade Zoo Keeper in the near future and going after that record too.
Thank you Ross! I'll be uploading the 15+30 million jumps on round 22 of my 78 million record game on YouTube.
Bryan
Amazing! Are you going to upload the whole 78M game to YouTube?
Only the the 15+30 million jumps are uploaded (round 22). I have a 58 million game that I might upload to MARP or YouTube
Title: Re: Zoo Keeper
Post by: Fly on February 12, 2021, 10:57:42 am
I'll be securing an arcade Zoo Keeper in the near future and going after that record too.

(https://www.twingalaxies.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=124680&d=1613156202)