Donkey Kong Forum
Donkey Kong Strategy => Advanced Donkey Kong Strategy => Topic started by: up2ng on August 02, 2013, 03:43:29 pm
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You are playing a Level 5 elevator screen. When the screen began, you immediately jumped onto the upward elevator with the intention of quickly getting to the bottom prize. But, a fast moving fireball caused you to abort. Unfortunately, at this moment, your hand slipped so you were unable to loop back around and instead you rode the elevator up to the top and grabbed the Umbrella. Just then, the fireball began to climb the right side ladder, so instead of moving across the top, you climbed back down the structure. Then, while on the middle platform along the left side, you managed to perform an amazingly difficult sequence of jumps to jump DOWN to the central platform where the bottom prize is located! (Clearly, you have extraordinary skills at all aspects of the elevator stage) BUT, while you were in the air, the fireball raced back down the left side ladder! With the fireball just grazing your cap, you quickly run to the right and desperately jump onto the downward elevator at its highest point, just barely escaping the fireball. Immediately, you notice the fireball climbing back up the right side ladder. Somehow, you also notice that the second fireball is currently frozen next to the purse.
Decision time:
Will you . . .
A) Jump BACK onto the central structure where the bottom prize was located.
OR
B) Continue down and disembark to the right, traversing the bottom section of the elevator stage to reach the top.
Explain.
PART TWO:
You have now just finished climbing the ladder to reach the top section. There is only one ladder left to climb, Pauline's ladder, to finish the screen. A spring is located directly over your head.
For each of these sequences for the following springs, explain the BEST path to the top. (Jumping OVER springs IS permitted!) Note that I will assume that there are exactly 16 distinct spring locations, labelled 0 - 15. Spring #0 bounces furthest to the left (the "shortest" spring) and spring #15 bounces furthest to the right (the "longest" spring). If you believe that "scrunchiness" plays a role (changes a spring's collision hit box), always assume the worst possible scrunchiness for every situation.
Scenario 1, Springs: 2, 6, 15, 10, 10
Scenario 2, Springs: 13, 4, 8, 9, 7
Scenario 3, Springs: 8, 10, 0, 12, 5
Scenario 4, Springs: 6, 6, 6, 9, 9
Scenario 5, Springs: 14, 3, 5, 11, 8
Scenario 6, Springs: 15, 14, 13, 12, 11
Scenario 7, Springs: 5, 15, 15, 15, 5
Scenario 8, Springs: 12, 8, 4, 8, 6
Scenario 9, Springs: 1, 10, 14, 12, 12
Scenario 10, Springs: 0, 2, 4, 6, 8
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B.
Since I'm so good at all things on the elevator boards, why not just leech several (up to 6, I believe) springs on my way up? ;)
Scenario 10.
I'm not 100% sure, but doesn't the '0, 2' order of the springs actually allow you to approach and climb the ladder from the right!? I know a '0,0' progression certainly would, but I'm not sure about the '2'.
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For the first part of the question, Option "A" (jumping back onto the platform where the bottom prize was located) is worth approximately 300-400 more points than Option "B" (taking the long way around). I'll post a few Twitch TV highlights later, demonstrating the results.
Part 2 has me a bit confused. Are we being asked which of the 10 scenarios is most favorable, or are we choosing which springs we'd go on (safe spot #1 to safe spot #2, and final ladder approach) for each of the sequences presented?
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Part 2 has me a bit confused.
Another question on clarification: if there is a spring right over Jumpman's head, that means there is another spring in the vicinity of Donkey Kong's feet/pulley. Are we to assume this spring is the first one listed in the scenario locations? Thanks!
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Option A if you jumped early enough to jump back (Which you said) - Can generally get back up much faster and safer.
Depends on what you consider the safest spring to run up on. I would have to say Scenerio 7
Scenario 7, Springs: 5 (run), 15 (wait at left of ladder), 15 (wait), 15 (wait) , 5 (go up)
You run on the "short" 5, wait at the immediate left of the ladder for the 3 longs (15) and then go up on the short (5)
If you feel a 10 is safe then Scenerio 1
Scenario 1, Springs: 2 (wait) 6 (go), 15 (wait at ladder) , 10 (go up), 10
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Ok yeah, what I meant was for Part 1 was to choose A or B and then EXPLAIN your answer.
For Part 2, I meant that as 10 seperate short answer questions (not multiple choice) where you could explain how you could end up with the best score under each different scenario. The spring over your head is already lost (I don't know of any way to score points off of this spring, but again, feel free to demonstrate a leech from here, that would be fun!) -- so yeah, in scenario 1, the NEXT spring will be a #2 spring (a short spring). Based on the information given, its current location should be clear.
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For those that choose 'A', why not just walk back -rather than jumping back?! Save a little time there. ;)
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I really hope this one wasn't too confusing for everyone. As of now there has been ZERO full participation . . .
C'Mon guys! These are supposed to be fun, AND to spur some discussion about various topics!
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Ironically, (I don't know if you were able to see this in your chat) people were talking about this very question quite a bit in your twitch chat today! From what I hear, Scott is brewing up a pretty in-depth analysis of this situation! ;)
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Ok, I choose "A" for part 1, the amount of time it takes to climb that 1 long ladder is rather short when compared to the ascension on the right, even with a less than immediately responsive fireball in the center structure. There is still a good chance that taking the right path will indeed involve its own set of fireball slowdowns, so choice A is clearly the more pointiferous route.
Part 2:
scenarios:
1- go to the first safe spot on spring 2 (right side of paulines ladder), immediately go up the ladder before spring 6.
2- go to the safe above the elevator on spring 4 let spring 8 go by, make your run on spring 9 and beat spring 7 up paulines ladder
3- head to the right of paulines ladder before spring 0 ( you can almost touch the ladder on a 0 spring) now continue past ladder and instantly reverse just behind spring 12 and up the ladder we go
4-first spring 6 to safe spot above elevator wait for spring 9, get good run and go up (medium medium is ok)
5- to safe spot above elevator on spring 3 wait for spring 11 and beat next spring 8 up paulines ladder
6- i hate scenario 6, would likely wait it out, but i'd imagine theres a way to get to the safe spot between the first 2 springs, after that anything is ok to go, as all springs are shorter than their previous, just get a good "jump"
7- head to right of paulines ladder on spring 5 now cross over and pause just left of the ladder, do 2 half retreats and head up before spring 5
8-head to safe spot on spring 4, go on spring 8 and up before spring 6
9-right of paulines ladder on spring 1 then over to safe spot above elevator, now go on 14 and up before 12
10-i would likely wait out scenario 10, but i wouldnt be surprised to learn that you can just go straight up paulines ladder after the first or second spring (possibility of the 2nd spring (2) hitting your right foot on rebound because it was sooo short?)
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Ironically, (I don't know if you were able to see this in your chat) people were talking about this very question quite a bit in your twitch chat today! From what I hear, Scott is brewing up a pretty in-depth analysis of this situation! ;)
I actually didn't see a single line of chat today. For me, streaming my games is becoming more and more hopeless.
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Ironically, (I don't know if you were able to see this in your chat) people were talking about this very question quite a bit in your twitch chat today! From what I hear, Scott is brewing up a pretty in-depth analysis of this situation! ;)
I actually didn't see a single line of chat today. For me, streaming my games is becoming more and more hopeless.
Dean I have an "older" (less than 3 years old) laptop that I would be more than willing to "clean" and send your way :D There is no reason that the top DK player/streamer should not be able to stream or interact with his audience. This will benefit the entire community, not just you. Let me know.
EDIT: Dean, you could even send the laptop back after you get 1.2M if you somehow felt obliged, but the machine has been gathering dust in my family room for months :D and I would be more than willing to donate it to a cause that benefits the entire community.
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Ok, well it looks like there may not be too many more responses coming so I'll just go ahead and post my "answers". Of course, just because I have an opinion about my own questions doesn't mean I have the best answer so please feel free to continue the discussion!
Thanks to Ethan for actually answering the questions. I apologize if it wasn't so clear this time around. Among all of the responses there were some great ideas and a lot of you seem to be on the right track.
Part 1:
From where we are located at the "Decision Time", there are two very different possible paths. There are two different methods for progressing to the area at the top of the ladder where we'd be finished executing a "top shelf" jump. From that point, the two paths join and the best option would be the one which conserves the most Bonus points on the Timer, adjusting for any auxillary points which are picked up along the way. First, we could go back to the middle structure, working our way up and jump across one of the two "shortcut" gaps, OR we could continue to the right and work our way up the bottom right section of the screen. Obviously, we are pretty well trained to know that the first option is generally considered a "shortcut" for a reason and the other path is known as "the long way around" for a reason as well -- typically the shortcut is the more efficient path, saving valuable Bonus points.
But, let's take a closer look at this particular situation . . .
The most important point to notice about the setup is that we have already grabbed the umbrella! So, by going back to the middle structure from our current position there will be NO prizes to pursue -- it is likely that we will not pick up any auxillary points en route to our top shelf platform going this way. With the fireball on its way back to the top, we will NOT be climbing the ladders in the middle section, we will be jumping back onto the upward elevator.
While there is a decent chance that the timing will work out well so that the fireball will decend again while we are on our way to the top (no delay in this case), there is some percentage of the time where the fireball will camp out at the top and we'll be forced to bail out back to the umbrella platform (which does NOT contain an umbrella). In these cases, we'll be forced to try to coax the fireball back down before proceeding across the top, which will range from nearly right away to several seconds. Just to pick some numbers -- suppose we are delayed 50% of the time and when we are delayed we are delayed by an average of two ticks off the Bonus Timer. In addition, we were forced to jump left and then jump back onto the elevator before jumping right (two extra jumps plus a bit more movement costs at least another 200 Bonus points) -- so we should factor in an average delay of 200 points with this route.
The next point to notice is that the second fireball is currently frozen next to the purse. Understanding the pattern of a frozen fireball while roaming (not frozen at the bottom or top of a ladder), we know that this fireball will move right, hit the invisible wall, come back to the left, proceed down the ladder and then freeze. After freezing, it will climb back up that same ladder to where the purse is located and freeze again at the top of that ladder. By the time it is done doing this, we will be beyond the section of the structure where that fireball could cause us any delays -- so, this fireball can NEVER climb down that second ladder to get in our way in this specific scenario . . . there will be NO delay when choosing this path!
Finally, the expert jump maneuver that was already performed in the setup should imply that we could traverse the bottom section with the greatest possible efficiency WHILE leeching a spring as often as possible!
With all of these points in mind, let's try to calculate the total cost of choosing the bottom section. Riding the elevator the rest of the way down (a short distance) and then jumping to the lowest platform should take about one tick from the Timer (one spring missed). When jumping to the next platform we can leech the 2nd spring. When jumping to the third platform we can leech the 3rd spring. While climbing the short ladder to the next level we'll miss the 4th spring. Next, we'll jump to the middle platform while leeching the 5th spring. After that, we'll jump to the lower shortcut platform while leeching the 6th spring. Finally, we'll have to climb up the ladder to the top shelf platform while the 7th spring goes by as we reach our "goal" for this comparison. So, with this estimation, the total cost of choosing the lower path is just 300 points! (700 Bonus lost, 400 auxillary spring leeching points gained)
(NOTE: If a combination of springs comes up so that it is not safe to efficiently jump horizontally along the structure, there will ALWAYS be a way to perform a vertical jump to leech the offending spring while delayed -- for a zero net loss. The result upon reaching the top shelf platform will STILL be a total cost of just 300 points.)
Remember that our average delay alone on the left side path already costs us 200 points. So, nearly the ENTIRE time that it takes to get from our current location to the top shelf location along the left side route is points lost! Meaning, choosing the bottom path in this particular case is SIGNIFICANTLY superior. I think that result will be surprising to most players.
The absense of the umbrella makes all the difference though. If the umbrella was still there it's virtually always correct to go back up the left side to collect this 800 point prize.
Part 2:
The idea behind this exercise is to begin to think about point pressing the elevators positionally instead of with just good timing. Instead of thinking about "the safe spot" as being a spot on top of the yellow graphics where you can stand and no springs can hit you, consider thinking about the safe spot as a zone which has a left edge and a right edge and that this entire zone moves to the right or left depending on which of the 16 possible springs enters the screen.
In addition, becoming familiar with the 16 possible spring positions should give you a better understanding for which of these allow the most "clearance" on Pauline's ladder -- meaning, how low on this ladder can Jumpman be located and still survive 100% of the time (assume the worst possible "scrunchiness" for this spring position). Having more clearance allows you to begin your approach up Pauline's ladder from a more distant position (or, to have a worse "jump", or timing).
I don't actually know the exact clearance values for every spring position, but I do understand the general trend. The trend is that the very longest springs have no clearance (or, negative clearance) -- these cross so high up the ladder that they will always hit you. As the spring position gets slightly shorter, they will cross slightly lower, allowing for a small amount of clearance. This trend continues until you hit a "sweet spot", where the clearance is greatest (the spring crosses the ladder at its lowest point) -- surprisingly, this is NOT spring 0. Instead, this is probably closer to spring 5 or 6 on my scale of 0 to 15. As we get shorter still, the clearance actually reduces again as the spring is now crossing the ladder on the rebound (on its way back up) and this trend continues all the way to spring 0, which is actually relatively dangerous with a fairly low level of clearance. There IS a very slight horizontal advantage with spring 0 though -- in the time it takes for the spring to travel the additional 16 pixels horizontally, Jumpman MAY have just enough time to climb an additional 1 or 2 pixels higher than he can when dealing with a spring 15. Still, the important point is that spring 0 is NOT the most ideal spring to climb ahead of.
With all that being said, here is my interpretation for what might be possible on the 10 scanarios (these may or may not be correct and are open to debate):
First of all, to my knowledge, there is NEVER any situation where jumping over a spring or leeching a spring is profitable -- I REALLY hope someone can post a video to the contrary, that would be pretty cool!
Scenario 1, Springs: 2, 6, 15, 10, 10
This is the perfect scenario for the fastest possible finish -- A 6 spring is pretty much right in the sweet spot for being the best trailing spring . . .
Run left, stop (2), continue left and DIRECTLY up the ladder from the right (6)!
Scenario 2, Springs: 13, 4, 8, 9, 7
This initial combination is poor for getting to the safe spot, an unfortunate delay.
Wait (13), run left, stop (4), continue left and DIRECTLY up the ladder from the right ( 8 ).
Scenario 3, Springs: 8, 10, 0, 12, 5
Spring 0 is very dangerous here. Big delays.
Run left, stop ( 8 ), continue left to safe zone (10), wait (0), edge to the right (12), climb up the ladder (5).
Scenario 4, Springs: 6, 6, 6, 9, 9
This would be a pretty borderline approach from the right. If that doesn't work, you can definitely get between two 6 springs approaching from the left (in fact, this is probably what we are seeing on Level 6 in D2K).
Run left, stop (6), continue left and DIRECTLY up the ladder from the right (6).
Scenario 5, Springs: 14, 3, 5, 11, 8
This initial combination is poor for getting to the safe spot, an unfortunate delay.
Wait (14), run left, stop (3), continue left and DIRECTLY up the ladder from the right (5).
Scenario 6, Springs: 15, 14, 13, 12, 11
This is nasty. It's hard to know exactly which combination is safe (For example, the "kill screen" in D2K on Level 14 MIGHT be 14, 14, 14 combinations and NOT 15, 15, 15 as many players are assuming). BUT, we CAN move left immediately with a combination like this.
Run left, stop (15), continue left to safe zone (14), quickly turn right and up the ladder (13).
Scenario 7, Springs: 5, 15, 15, 15, 5
This one should be clear -- lots of 15s = big delays.
Run left, stop (5), continue left to safe zone (15), wait (15), edge to the right (15), climb up the ladder (5).
Scenario 8, Springs: 12, 8, 4, 8, 6
This is close at every decision, but doable I think.
Run left, stop (12), continue left to safe zone ( 8 ), quickly turn right and up the ladder (4).
Scenario 9, Springs: 1, 10, 14, 12, 12
A 10 spring seems like it might be pretty long, but I think this one yields pretty decent clearance.
Run left, stop (1), continue left and DIRECTLY up the ladder from the right (10).
Scenario 10, Springs: 0, 2, 4, 6, 8
Another nasty one. I'm not clear how spring 2 compares with spring 10 in terms of clearance, but I'm assuming we might just make it -- otherwise, it might not be safe to approach from the left side until the 6, 8 combo . . .
Run left, stop (0), continue left and DIRECTLY up the ladder from the right (2).
Ok, I hope that was fun and/or useful. Feel free to debate these answers and discuss further.
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So you can safely run up the ladder directly from the right on lvl 5+ elevators? I never see it done is the risk not worth the reward?
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You can, but it is impractical. It has to be on two consecutive short springs, and where the 2nd spring is not too short.
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Good stuff Dean. I had planned on answering the spring section of your question with frame-perfect answers, but I never quite finished. Anyway, I have a couple of comments that you and others might find interesting. I've been collecting information and making graphics in the hope that someday I can start a comprehensive "spring theory" thread in the Advanced Strategy forum...but I need to be an advanced player first. ;D
1) I don't know the location of every spring's ladder clearance (something I plan on looking at now), but I DO know that there is a "safe zone" near the top of Pauline's ladder where a spring will NEVER hit you regarding of length or scrunchiness (which I'm not sure matters). If you look at Jumpman's Y-position on the ladder in the debugger you'll see that Kong's platform has a hex value of 50. The top of Pauline's ladder is 30. I'm not sure why going up counts down, but that's the way it is. Once you reach a Y-value of 38 you're safe. So, 50 minus 38 converted to decimal is 24 pixels of danger (and 8 pixels of safety) on a ladder that is 32 pixels tall. Jumpman doesn't climb ladders one pixel at a time however; I believe it's 2 pixels for every 5 frames.
2) Each of the two safe spots on Kong's platform are 13 pixels wide. The first safe spot at the top of the short ladder occupies X-values A7-B4 (hex again). The center of the short ladder is at B3. The second safe spot occupies X-values 75-82. These safe spots are obviously the areas where will no spring will every hit you and, as you pointed out, can shift depending on length of each spring. The safe area for leeching the right-side fireball has X-values of D5-D9 (4 pixels!). At DA you can hit the fireball while jumping, and DB is falling off the right edge. The left edge (D5) can obviously shift depending on spring length, which Dean often demonstrates by edging to the left to leech a spring.
Also, the 13-pixel-wide safe spots leads to me believe that the horizontal dimension of a spring's hitbox might be 6 pixels.
3) The center of Pauline's ladder has an X-value of 93. However, as Dean pointed out in a previous post, you can "corner" up the ladder by grabbing it before you reach that center position. You can grab the LEFT side of the ladder at X-position 90, and the RIGHT side of the ladder at X-position 97. In regards to D2K, you can actually stand at X-position 90 on L14 springs for the duration of the screen, however you can only make it to Y-position 3A instead of the safe 38. The L14 spring on D2K is the second longest of the 16 springs, or #14 in Dean's 0-15 system.
4) Each of the 16 springs lands one pixel farther than the one previous. So, a 0 spring lands at X-value 28, a 1 spring at 29, etc. till you get to the 16th spring which lands at X-value 37 (again hex values here). Every spring moves horizontally 2 pixels for every frame of animation. When a spring lands on Kong's platform it actually remains on the platform for 2 frames, and slides to right 2 pixels in the second frame. This means that's possible to "see" a 0 spring as 2 spring, or 13 spring as 15 spring, etc. depending on which frame you're actually "seeing" the spring.
5) I'm not entirely convinced that scrunchiness matters, but I've seen some weird values in the MAME debugger that I need to look at more closely. A spring will always "land" at Y-value 50...that's Kong's platform. It will stay at 50 for two frames while it's X-position shifts. In it's animation, the next Y-value on the upswing of it's arc will always be 4D. However, I've seen springs that visually land on the platform but have a Y-value of 4D, followed one frame later by Y-value of 50, with an X-value shift of 4 pixels between the two frames instead of 2....with both springs appearing to sit directly on the platform.
Lots of stuff to work out. :D
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Wow, excellent post! This is great information which should probably be moved or copied into its own thread for reference.
I'm not totally sure if "scrunchiness" comes into play on this stuff either, but my instinct is that it actually does. One easy thing that someone could try is to simply frame advance an elevator screen in MAME and watch how the springs move in super slow motion (I feel like I've done this at some point but don't remember what I found). My guess is that the scrunchiness of a spring does not oscillate at the same rate as they bounce, so you can have some funny looking springs in the air -- but the key is that perhaps some of them are "closed" and some of them are "open" when crossing Pauline's ladder -- and IF closed and open springs actually have different vertical hitbox dimensions (a big IF), this could become a small variable in whether or not Jumpman makes it up the ladder.
One example -- in the past, I've used a save state to stand in the spot exactly where you are describing on the D2K kill screen, so that all that is required is to push UP to climb the ladder. With a save state, obviously all enemy behavior is repeatable. I would climb at the first available spring over and over again and would get hit in the leg in the same spot over and over. BUT, I found a specific spring (say, the 4th spring into the save state for example) where I could make it one pixel further -- Jumpman's animation was different when hit and the spring appeared to just barely hit Jumpman in the right foot, making it seem like he ALMOST makes it -- but this only was possible on that specific spring, and as you know in D2K they all have the same "length". The only thing that I felt might make a difference in that situation was that this specific spring had a more favorable scrunchiness when crossing the ladder.
Anyways, it would be interesting if that aspect of it were solved. But, great info on the rest of it!
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Dean, I'll try to put together all my spring info into a readable format and make another forum post about it.
I imagine the DK code has something to say about sprite hitbox dimensions. After all, it's always checking for sprite collision, right? So I imagine it must check that each sprite is at whatever x,y value and is compares that against some specific pixel offset from that x,y value. Closed springs are definitely wider than open springs, and open springs are definitely taller than closed springs...visually, at least.
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I've been trying to perfect my right of the ladder climb to eliminate wasting time going to the yellow safe zone I noticed that two short springs having the second spring around half way on the yellow platform to continue up is safest. I finish around 6800 with top shelf and no prize collecting. I also get around 6500 with a top prize usually. If you get up soon enough it seems to have more short springs then around 5500 left the longer springs kick in more. Everything has it's own pattern though so if I see long springs from the begining I go for two prizes and if short springs are happening more I go for top prize and a right of the elevator climb with 6500 left usually. 7300k has been my best but more can be possible for the right person. This only goes for levels 4 and up. Keep your regular pressing for the level 2 and 3.
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Ok I think if the first spring is short enough I could successfully climb up the ladder regardless of the next springs landing point. I just did it on a really long spring and a short one.
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Hmm, if you're talking about Level 4+ this makes no sense. You are farther away from the ladder and you get a later jump when approaching from the right than from the left and when you approach from the left there are springs which cannot be passed (the longest ones). There are likely even more springs that cannot be passed from the right side.
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I'll try and make a video. The really short springs land right at the foot of the ladder allowing for a really good jump on the spring and had a really long spring not hit me. Maybe lucky but two really short springs seem to kill me more but still can make it. I've finished an elevator today at 6700 on the ticker and grabbed the top left prize for 7500k finish. I haven't mastered it but am getting pretty comfortable and will stream or record it tonight if I have time.
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Yeah, this the sort of thing I pointed out right away, but I'm not sure it works of any spring following the shortest one, which is why I only made an example of the '0, 2' case here:
I'm not 100% sure, but doesn't the '0, 2' order of the springs actually allow you to approach and climb the ladder from the right!? I know a '0,0' progression certainly would, but I'm not sure about the '2'.
Also, if I remember correctly, this facet was un-utilized in Dean's eventual solution for this case either.
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I'd definitely be interested in seeing a video of that example.
But, using our nomenclature (little did I know that it would become "standardized" when I was writing it, but it helps that the code is now available and it's confirmed that there are indeed 16 different spring locations) if you were approaching from the right on a 0, 15 combination I'm 100% sure that you'd have less of a chance of survival than if you were to approach from the left on a 15, 15 combination. Remember with the 15, 15 combination, you can literally stand ON the ladder and do nothing but press UP immediately after the longest spring goes over your head and you STILL can't make it past a 14 or 15. You definitely cannot get a BETTER jump than that by approaching from the right no matter how short the spring is.
But, anyways, the point is still well taken that there are likely a larger number of spring combinations that can be safely approached from the right than most people think and that it might be worthwhile to look into adding this into a point presser's arsenal.
Think about how efficient this case would be -- you see a very short spring and begin approaching from the right with the intention of climbing from the right. You might even get a foot on the bottom rung and you'd really only need to retreat if there was a very long spring coming -- this retreat only needs to be about a half-step away from the ladder and you could immediately turn and climb up again from the LEFT -- basically you'd NEVER have to run all the way to the yellow portion of the "safe spot"! This would take a lot of practice but I could see it potentially gaining an average of 200 - 300 points per level.
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Think about how efficient this case would be -- you see a very short spring and begin approaching from the right with the intention of climbing from the right. You might even get a foot on the bottom rung and you'd really only need to retreat if there was a very long spring coming -- this retreat only needs to be about a half-step away from the ladder and you could immediately turn and climb up again from the LEFT -- basically you'd NEVER have to run all the way to the yellow portion of the "safe spot"! This would take a lot of practice but I could see it potentially gaining an average of 200 - 300 points per level.
This is one of the things I've had in the back of my mind for a while to have you try to incorporate into you game. You seem to be maybe the only person whose game would really require that sort of effort to completely overhaul your normal Springs gameplay to get a few extra 100 points. ;)
"Because for you to get a single point further in an old game, from the early eighties, meant a tremendous increase of skill!" -Walter Day
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Yeah Mitch, dean would be the best at this. I will stream a video Monday night when I get some time. I would say I had a short 0 spring and practically just climbed straight up the ladder. After I'd say the next spring was solid on the yellow platform. I wouldn't have believed it either if I didn't do it. Might not been the longest spring but was def. Really long.
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About 1.5 years I messed around with this and had a couple 400k+ games using only this method, so I'm quite familiar with it. I just stopped using it, since I figured it was ultimately safer and not any significant loss of going from the left given my pace at the time.
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Yeah. I think that you can definitely gain some points on it immediately and if it's not there then go back to the yellow platform for the retreat and set up for the classic climb. Makes sense since you're waiting on a shorter spring to get to the safe zone anyways. Might as well try and climb and gain what you can point wise.