Donkey Kong Forum
Donkey Kong Strategy => Advanced Donkey Kong Strategy => Topic started by: Adam_Mon on July 09, 2017, 02:57:31 pm
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A few years back Jeff Willms highlighted a move on the 5th girder where he back jumped a barrel as it was decending down kongs ladder and then back jumped it again gaining 200 points from an otherwise 100 point scenario. For quite a long time now I have been implimenting it into my games on the long ladders as an opportunistic pointpressing move usually pulling it off if there are no available barrel groups (or if something unsteers) etc.
The other day I tried to do it on the third girder left broken ladder and the second back jump lead me straight off the end of the girder and it wasn't until Dean mentioned in the chat that if I straight jumped the second jump I'd have survived.
That got me thinking about the move Jeff showed on the 5th girder years ago, the biggest problem with it was that it leaves you open to the wild on the second back jump, but utilizing the back jump, straight jump it removes the danger entirely.
! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDCPhrW6eWE&feature=youtu.be#)
This leech is proving to be a powerful move that alot of people could benefit from, It's basically like the top girder double back jump but can be used in grouping combinations and on any long ladder.
A few more exampes..
https://clips.twitch.tv/UgliestTrustworthyBubbleteaKevinTurtle (https://clips.twitch.tv/UgliestTrustworthyBubbleteaKevinTurtle)
https://clips.twitch.tv/DependableTenuousSushiNotATK (https://clips.twitch.tv/DependableTenuousSushiNotATK)
https://clips.twitch.tv/ExpensiveObliviousYakKeepo (https://clips.twitch.tv/ExpensiveObliviousYakKeepo)
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That Willms jump into WB leech is so sick Kreygasm
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This is very cool... I wonder if it could be implemented into regular L05+ grouping safely? <popcorn> <popcorn> <popcorn>
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This is very cool... I wonder if it could be implemented into regular L05+ grouping safely? <popcorn> <popcorn> <popcorn>
Absolutley, off the top of my head you could use it while grouping the 5th girder on lvl 5, we often get that single barrel that won't have a chance of falling into a group so you could turn that 100 into 200.
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Could add 20k to a full game
How risky is it? That straight jump looks pretty tight
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No more difficult than the double back jumps on the top girder (andrew gardikis jumps?) or the top shelf, I died a good bit in the beginning but have it down pretty solid now. I'm at a point where I'll regulalry incorporate it into my barrel boards, a solid place to use it is right at the beginning of a barrel board (2nd girder long ladder) while waiting for the fire to climb and then I'll use it on long ladders in the transistion provided it does not interfere with normal grouping. 5th girder is where it comes in handy though, cash in on those single ungroupable stragglers.
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I used to use the two back jumps on the long ladders (especially the 2nd girder one) a lot back when I played more. That second jump as a straight jump seems a bit too risky for me in terms of using it the entire game (much like the top girder double leech), but it could be a viable early game strategy. Big starts? Lovit?! Kreygasm
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Could this be combo'd into a double barrel leech somewhere? To get 300 points off the same barrel Kreygasm
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Could this be combo'd into a double barrel leech somewhere? To get 300 points off the same barrel Kreygasm
Yes, even 3 barrels for 2x500 on lower girders provided they were stacked neatly. steering all 3 though <mad>
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I'm probably wrong... but isn't this technique alone more efficient than standard grouping?
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I'm probably wrong... but isn't this technique alone more efficient than standard grouping?
I have not done the math, but I certainly hope not, there is an artistry to regular grouping that I would hate to see die out BibleThump but if its true I blame Jeff Willms and Dean Kappa
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With rejumps factored in it's probably not more efficient, but if one didn't do rejumps on the girder below I have a gut feeling this is more efficient. Would be very curious to see the math
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I'm also wondering what a best case, worst case, and avg case with this technique is in terms of a barrel board score. Could a 14k barrel be an avg case? If the barrel average of a game can be pushed to a little over 14k reliably with this technique then a score of 1.3 million is technically possible.
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Could this be combo'd into a double barrel leech somewhere? To get 300 points off the same barrel Kreygasm
Yes, even 3 barrels for 2x500 on lower girders provided they were stacked neatly. steering all 3 though <mad>
Although what you said would be outrageous Kreygasm I actually meant comboing into a double back jump like what people do on the top girder. AFAIK there's a certain spot on each girder this is possible, not just the top?
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Ok I think I understand, is this what you are talking about? two versions, 300 points off one barrel and the other version is the modified leech that uses a second barrel for the third (and forth) hundo.
! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLrG1YuRTNU#)
! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnkuEaEVbMU#)
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soooooor siiiiiiick Kreygasm Kreygasm Kreygasm
Yep pretty much what I was talking about. Was thinking more on the lower girders but that works too, unfortunate if a wild comes
Kreygasm love it
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Moderator Error!!!:
Crap... I (Mitchell) accidentally editted this post instead of creating a response. Gonna see if Jeff can restore it. Sorry!
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Ahh ok I didn't know about the last 3 girder block thing.
This would be sick in a 1-1 run also combined with the wfli-rejump on the first girder. 15k anyone?
Kreygasm Kreygasm Kreygasm
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Couldn't you do something like this in the Pie Factory?
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I'm also wondering what a best case, worst case, and avg case with this technique is in terms of a barrel board score. Could a 14k barrel be an avg case? If the barrel average of a game can be pushed to a little over 14k reliably with this technique then a score of 1.3 million is technically possible.
I've actually thought a lot about why this isnt used more in a game. I was playing a little on my Cab doing this one time and thought this move has a lot of potential. The risk seems to be a wild barrel on that backjump from the ladder could hit you can it not?
The rejump is 900 points for 4 barrels. If you leeched those 4 barrels properly its 800 points and if you do a rejump of one its 900 points. I think overall its possible if you leech the first pair and group the second now you are getting 1000 points for those 4 barrels. (That was my idea for a "strat" using this leech). Using it going up is a great idea too tho. Might be able to get another 500 points per board with minimal work and maybe even a 1000 doing double backjumps on top?
.
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Couldn't you do something like this in the Pie Factory?
The Willms leech? I can't see any way of implementing it, you could leech the pies but you will almost certainly lose points against the bonus timer.
You can leech the oil can on the pies though, it's dangerous but can be pulled off with enough practice. Because the timer ticks down so fast it only gives you maybe 1 or 2 extra thousand points if you survive (math guys will know more than I do)
I used a save state to show it. maybe this could be an ok idea on the early pies when the timer is slower and the fireballs cooperate?
! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZoSygGxWso&feature=youtu.be#)
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With enough practice it could possibly be a good technique. I certainly won't be pulling it off any time soon though.
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I didn't realize this before but given the posistion of the long/broken ladders I think that 300 point off one barrel move can only be pulled off on the 5th due to the gardikis jump only being possible on the last 3 girder block/ sections of any given girder
Not to burst anyone's bubble, but I'm pretty sure this has been known for a while now (by Eth, Phil, Jeff, myself, etc) due to messing around on 1-1 –it's just that it's not been taken to be all that viable for long games. The rejump at the ends of girders is pretty viable (especially leeching twice from *below* at the end of any girder e.g. like in the bottom right corner). As for the long ladder leech, I think with simply two leeches it is much more viable on the 2nd girder, imho. At least that way you have a chance of grouping barrels tightly together first and there is no added risk of the wilds.
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Yeah, I don't think that this will add more than a few hundred to barrel board averages, and don't think that 14k is viable with only this added technique. Please prove me wrong!
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I love seeing these little strategies and what people can come up with. In my mind until we incorporate things such as this, top-shelf jumps and right side climbs we'll never see a true "maxout" of the game.
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Moderator Error!!!:
Crap... I (Mitchell) accidentally editted this post instead of creating a response. Gonna see if Jeff can restore it. Sorry!
No worries Mitch ;D
This post was just explaining that the wilms leech + gardikis double jump can only be pulled off together on the 5th girder due to long ladder placement. The Gardikis double jump or better known as the 6th girder double jump can be pulled off on any of the girders provided it is done on the the last 3 red block/ segments of a girder (and maybe mid girder on the 1st? I could have sworn I seen Ethan Daniels pull it off).
This picture demonstrates the areas where each move can be pulled off, at least as far as I am aware.
(http://i.imgur.com/sTTngEo.png)
EDIT: Jry just cleared something up in the shoebox, The 1st girder leech I saw ED do was a wild double leech, not a Gardikis jump as apparently thats only possible on the ends of girders due to a decrease in barrel speed before the barrel rolls off the girder and therefore keepining it within range. So disregard that green box on the first girder, lets all just blame Barra and move on Kappa
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2x100 blue barrel (only works on 2-1)
http://www.twitch.tv/f_symbols/v/47028778 (http://www.twitch.tv/f_symbols/v/47028778)
2x300 3rd girder (silly)
http://www.twitch.tv/f_symbols/v/48988480 (http://www.twitch.tv/f_symbols/v/48988480)
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(http://i.imgur.com/TGJPSLA.png)