Author Topic: Donkey Kong Kill-Screener Timeline  (Read 201818 times)

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Offline stella_blue

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Re: Donkey Kong Kill-Screener Timeline
« Reply #180 on: October 24, 2015, 06:45:05 am »
Vincent just mentioned something to me that had completely slipped my mind...

John McCurdy reached L22 in August in his first-time million game. However, he suicided in the oil can. So he didn't actually screenkill the kill screen!

I am leaning toward adding him anyway, unless anyone has an objection.


I object, based solely on the reason that it is not true.


We've been astounded by the inaccuracies of Lemay math, and now we're being victimized by Lemay fiction.

Where does it all end?  And when?

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Offline serphintizer

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Re: Donkey Kong Kill-Screener Timeline
« Reply #181 on: October 24, 2015, 07:52:19 am »
Vincent just mentioned something to me that had completely slipped my mind...

John McCurdy reached L22 in August in his first-time million game. However, he suicided in the oil can. So he didn't actually screenkill the kill screen!

I am leaning toward adding him anyway, unless anyone has an objection.


I object, based solely on the reason that it is not true.


We've been astounded by the inaccuracies of Lemay math, and now we're being victimized by Lemay fiction.

Where does it all end?  And when?

Vince is correct.  My objection was in regards to my name being added to the "Donkey Kong Kill-Screener Timeline".  I do not qualify.  You were most likely making a funny, however.   FailFish
"Kill screen? Ha! It's for tourists."  - Mr. X
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Offline ChrisP

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Re: Donkey Kong Kill-Screener Timeline
« Reply #182 on: October 25, 2015, 01:19:35 pm »
OK, we're back to 79!  Kappa

Save that kill screen for 1.1!  :)
http://donkeykongblog.blogspot.com

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7/26/2013   Coin 35,946   710,800   18-1
7/28/2013   Coin 35,947   903,700   22-1
8/16/2013   Coin 35,948   694,100   17-6
8/17/2013   Coin 35,949   893,100   22-1

3,201,700: the $1 World Record?
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Offline serphintizer

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Re: Donkey Kong Kill-Screener Timeline
« Reply #183 on: October 25, 2015, 02:28:59 pm »
OK, we're back to 79!  Kappa

Save that kill screen for 1.1!  :)

Even if I needed the kill screen points for a new world record, I would still abort.  I dislike the kill screen that much.  It is more the kill screen mentality that irks me.  Stop limiting yourself.  When competing at whatever, my goal is to extract and apply every last drop of potential I may possess.  Only then will I feel satisfied with the outcome.  Some people are not wired that way, and a kill screen will do...and there is nothing wrong with that.  I, however, want to obliterate the game, so it never wants me to walk up to the controls ever again.     
"Kill screen? Ha! It's for tourists."  - Mr. X
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Offline xelnia

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Re: Donkey Kong Kill-Screener Timeline
« Reply #184 on: October 25, 2015, 02:41:12 pm »
OK, we're back to 79!  Kappa

Save that kill screen for 1.1!  :)

Even if I needed the kill screen points for a new world record, I would still abort.  I dislike the kill screen that much.  It is more the kill screen mentality that irks me.  Stop limiting yourself.  When competing at whatever, my goal is to extract and apply every last drop of potential I may possess.  Only then will I feel satisfied with the outcome.  Some people are not wired that way, and a kill screen will do...and there is nothing wrong with that.  I, however, want to obliterate the game, so it never wants me to walk up to the controls ever again.     

If you don't get the points available on the killscreen (as much as 1,100), then you'll never realize your potential. So, stop limiting yourself.
"Do not criticize, question, suggest or opine anything about an upcoming CAG event, no matter how constructive or positive your intent may be. You will find nothing but pain and frustration, trust me. Just go, or don't go, and :-X either way!" -ChrisP, 3/29/15
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Offline serphintizer

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Re: Donkey Kong Kill-Screener Timeline
« Reply #185 on: October 25, 2015, 02:46:24 pm »
OK, we're back to 79!  Kappa

Save that kill screen for 1.1!  :)

Even if I needed the kill screen points for a new world record, I would still abort.  I dislike the kill screen that much.  It is more the kill screen mentality that irks me.  Stop limiting yourself.  When competing at whatever, my goal is to extract and apply every last drop of potential I may possess.  Only then will I feel satisfied with the outcome.  Some people are not wired that way, and a kill screen will do...and there is nothing wrong with that.  I, however, want to obliterate the game, so it never wants me to walk up to the controls ever again.     

If you don't get the points available on the killscreen (as much as 1,100), then you'll never realize your potential. So, stop limiting yourself.

The mentality, my friend...the mentality.
"Kill screen? Ha! It's for tourists."  - Mr. X
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Offline Barra

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Re: Donkey Kong Kill-Screener Timeline
« Reply #186 on: October 29, 2015, 01:29:03 am »
Its the game doing the limiting, not you.
 <confused>
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Offline serphintizer

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Re: Donkey Kong Kill-Screener Timeline
« Reply #187 on: October 29, 2015, 07:45:31 am »
Its the game doing the limiting, not you.
 <confused>

 FailFish We are not seeing the forest for the trees here.  I wave the white flag.
"Kill screen? Ha! It's for tourists."  - Mr. X
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Re: Donkey Kong Kill-Screener Timeline
« Reply #188 on: October 29, 2015, 09:50:22 am »
Did you play your 1m game on Windows XP? Hmm.. you might have some explaining to do..

Offline serphintizer

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Re: Donkey Kong Kill-Screener Timeline
« Reply #189 on: October 29, 2015, 11:43:04 am »
Did you play your 1m game on Windows XP? Hmm.. you might have some explaining to do..

 ;D Talk about going off on a tangent, but I'll play.  I achieved my 1M+ point game on a budget ASUS desktop running Windows 7 Professional (horrible lag, but had no other choice) while at work.  At home, I have a Dell desktop running Windows XP which I bought off of a co-worker for $20.  This thing is so obsolete it's hilarious, but when it comes to playing Donkey Kong, it plays it like something I have never seen before (can't stream though—it instantly crashes due to cheap integrated graphics).  It feels like I'm cheating it's so butter.  We are talking absolutely zero lag.  Robbie has also experienced this phenomenon, but what does he know?  Kappa

The question then becomes, why?  Why does it run this way on an XP machine?  Well, I don't know the answer to that, but I am certainly convinced beyond reproach that a few top players used and still use this setup not by accident, but by premeditated design.  However, in my mind, it doesn't matter anyway.  The genuine article (World Record) will always be held by the person who did it on an arcade machine.  Once arcade machines disappear forever, then we can talk different platforms.       
« Last Edit: October 29, 2015, 11:46:05 am by serphintizer »
"Kill screen? Ha! It's for tourists."  - Mr. X
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Offline Adam_Mon

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Re: Donkey Kong Kill-Screener Timeline
« Reply #190 on: October 29, 2015, 12:22:16 pm »
Did you play your 1m game on Windows XP? Hmm.. you might have some explaining to do..

 ;D Talk about going off on a tangent, but I'll play.  I achieved my 1M+ point game on a budget ASUS desktop running Windows 7 Professional (horrible lag, but had no other choice) while at work.  At home, I have a Dell desktop running Windows XP which I bought off of a co-worker for $20.  This thing is so obsolete it's hilarious, but when it comes to playing Donkey Kong, it plays it like something I have never seen before (can't stream though—it instantly crashes due to cheap integrated graphics).  It feels like I'm cheating it's so butter.  We are talking absolutely zero lag.  Robbie has also experienced this phenomenon, but what does he know?  Kappa

The question then becomes, why?  Why does it run this way on an XP machine?  Well, I don't know the answer to that, but I am certainly convinced beyond reproach that a few top players used and still use this setup not by accident, but by premeditated design.  However, in my mind, it doesn't matter anyway.  The genuine article (World Record) will always be held by the person who did it on an arcade machine.  Once arcade machines disappear forever, then we can talk different platforms.       

If playing DK on wolfMAME106 on XP offers an advantage in terms of lag/ response I can understand that, I think it was you who brought it up during a stream one night, I've never tried it on XP so I personally couldn't say for sure, although I don't doubt you..

The only thing I would take issue with is the statement that some "Top players" knew about this and kept it to themselves in order to gain an advantage, The two top MAME players that come to mind are Dean and Ross and they were the guys who revolutionized the way we play the game today, they literally came up with the point pressing strategies and high-level game play techniques we all use today, on MAME and arcade. they documented and shared what they found (I think in the million march thread on old tg?) I'm also positive that the vast majority of DK players on this site are anti-game hiding (Lexmarkery is frowned upon)..So I can say for a fact if they were aware of an advantage with regards to playing on Xp versus any other OS they would have shared that info. 

EDIT: as for "The genuine article (World Record) will always be held by the person who did it on an arcade machine"

......I think I'll abstain from that Kappa
« Last Edit: October 29, 2015, 12:32:29 pm by Adam_Mon »
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Offline serphintizer

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Re: Donkey Kong Kill-Screener Timeline
« Reply #191 on: October 29, 2015, 12:51:41 pm »
Did you play your 1m game on Windows XP? Hmm.. you might have some explaining to do..

 ;D Talk about going off on a tangent, but I'll play.  I achieved my 1M+ point game on a budget ASUS desktop running Windows 7 Professional (horrible lag, but had no other choice) while at work.  At home, I have a Dell desktop running Windows XP which I bought off of a co-worker for $20.  This thing is so obsolete it's hilarious, but when it comes to playing Donkey Kong, it plays it like something I have never seen before (can't stream though—it instantly crashes due to cheap integrated graphics).  It feels like I'm cheating it's so butter.  We are talking absolutely zero lag.  Robbie has also experienced this phenomenon, but what does he know?  Kappa

The question then becomes, why?  Why does it run this way on an XP machine?  Well, I don't know the answer to that, but I am certainly convinced beyond reproach that a few top players used and still use this setup not by accident, but by premeditated design.  However, in my mind, it doesn't matter anyway.  The genuine article (World Record) will always be held by the person who did it on an arcade machine.  Once arcade machines disappear forever, then we can talk different platforms.       

If playing DK on wolfMAME106 on XP offers an advantage in terms of lag/ response I can understand that, I think it was you who brought it up during a stream one night, I've never tried it on XP so I personally couldn't say for sure, although I don't doubt you..

The only thing I would take issue with is the statement that some "Top players" knew about this and kept it to themselves in order to gain an advantage, The two top MAME players that come to mind are Dean and Ross and they were the guys who revolutionized the way we play the game today, they literally came up with the point pressing strategies and high-level game play techniques we all use today, on MAME and arcade. they documented and shared what they found (I think in the million march thread on old tg?) I'm also positive that the vast majority of DK players on this site are anti-game hiding (Lexmarkery is frowned upon)..So I can say for a fact if they were aware of an advantage with regards to playing on Xp versus any other OS they would have shared that info.

I can only speak from personal experience as well, along with corroborating testimony from Robbie himself.  This is in no wise an attempt to discredit any accomplishments by any means.  I just think that it is an interesting topic, that's all.  Oh, and would you mind filling me in on how you are "positive" and know for a "fact" that if players were aware of an advantage, they would be compelled to divulge that info?   
"Kill screen? Ha! It's for tourists."  - Mr. X
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Offline Adam_Mon

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Re: Donkey Kong Kill-Screener Timeline
« Reply #192 on: October 29, 2015, 01:34:21 pm »
I absolutely agree that its an interesting topic, If there are advantages from one OS to another than they should be documented.
That said, Its worth not jumping to conclusions...

"I am certainly convinced beyond reproach that a few top players used and still use this setup not by accident, but by premeditated design."

You could have put your point across regarding XP/lag without insinuating that highly respected members of this community were in some way sand bagging the rest of us by keeping strategic, advantageous information to themselves.

I know for a fact they would not hide that sort of information because I've been a member here for 3 years (despite what my profile says  8) ) and gotten to know them well and followed their progress in that time.
I really cant stress enough how open this community is when it comes to the game, if something is found be it a new tactic or strat, it's shared for all to see.

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to come down on you whatsoever, this isn't an attack on you or at least I hope it isn't coming across that way? You have proven to be an excellent player and the last thing I want is for you to feel chastised for having an opinion.. The point I'm trying to get across is simply that if you have been here long enough you would see the type of character these guys have.

Offline serphintizer

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Re: Donkey Kong Kill-Screener Timeline
« Reply #193 on: October 29, 2015, 02:37:22 pm »
I absolutely agree that its an interesting topic, If there are advantages from one OS to another than they should be documented.
That said, Its worth not jumping to conclusions...

"I am certainly convinced beyond reproach that a few top players used and still use this setup not by accident, but by premeditated design."

You could have put your point across regarding XP/lag without insinuating that highly respected members of this community were in some way sand bagging the rest of us by keeping strategic, advantageous information to themselves.

I know for a fact they would not hide that sort of information because I've been a member here for 3 years (despite what my profile says  8) ) and gotten to know them well and followed their progress in that time.
I really cant stress enough how open this community is when it comes to the game, if something is found be it a new tactic or strat, it's shared for all to see.

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to come down on you whatsoever, this isn't an attack on you or at least I hope it isn't coming across that way? You have proven to be an excellent player and the last thing I want is for you to feel chastised for having an opinion.. The point I'm trying to get across is simply that if you have been here long enough you would see the type of character these guys have.

Fair comment, Adam, I can respect that.  All I was saying was that I (just me, to my knowledge...give it time  :) ) am convinced.  And no, it is not coming across as an attack on me, so don't sweat it.  Mark it down though, I am putting forth a "new"  Kappa strategy to make Donkey Kong easier:

 Step 1)  Get your hands on a computer (preferably a desktop) running Windows XP
 Step 2)  Download wolfmameplus-0106.exe
 Step 3)  Download Donkey Kong (US set 1) ROM
 Step 4)  Play and try not to smile.

Enjoy!  8)
"Kill screen? Ha! It's for tourists."  - Mr. X
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WCopeland

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Re: Donkey Kong Kill-Screener Timeline
« Reply #194 on: October 29, 2015, 02:57:51 pm »
Quote from: serphintizer
It feels like I'm cheating it's so butter.  We are talking absolutely zero lag.  Robbie has also experienced this phenomenon, but what does he know?  Kappa

Frankly, Robbie's opinions on MAME usability are irrelevant because Robbie is not a MAME player, and to my knowledge has never played a MAME game of Donkey Kong at a world-class level. This is also a mischaracterization of how Robbie feels about platform differences, which is that there are two records: the arcade platform and the MAME platform.

Quote from: serphintizer
The question then becomes, why?  Why does it run this way on an XP machine?  Well, I don't know the answer to that, but I am certainly convinced beyond reproach that a few top players used and still use this setup not by accident, but by premeditated design.  However, in my mind, it doesn't matter anyway.  The genuine article (World Record) will always be held by the person who did it on an arcade machine.  Once arcade machines disappear forever, then we can talk different platforms.       

I feel like I'm in a unique position to address this because I have some of the highest scores ever achieved on both platforms.

For context, you have publicly made these comments on Twitch:

Quote from: serphintizer
Ethan, rent a U-Haul and bring Dean a machine. Let's see what he's got. Kappa
I don't count Dean's score either.
Reclining in a La-Z-Boy with greasy chips sitting on your belly while playing Donkey Kong should not count.
Smaller muscle groups vs larger muscle groups.
MAME has the advantage all day long.
Reaction time and reflexes.
I have said this before and I'll say it again, Dean knows the secret of all secrets.
Dean's "dinosaur" setup isn't by accident.
Go ask Dean and Jeff Willms, HUGDD.

By a wide margin, the community disagrees with you that MAME is a huge advantage. At a lower level, such as what I've seen you play at, I can understand how mechanical skill might make a difference. However, at 1.1m+ and especially 1.14m+ paces, I would argue that decision-making by far and away trumps mechanical ability as the most important skill needed to avoid pace decay. I think any player who is able to maintain a 61k level average over six or seven levels realizes this as well.

Arcade on CRT should experience even less input lag than 100% speed MAME on a flatscreen regardless of OS. With this in mind, the only thing left is physical endurance and the mechanical delay caused by a joystick (which, as noted above, doesn't actually matter anyway). None of the top MAME players have had any problem with this:
  • Jeff Willms won three Kong Offs in a row (we can go ahead and include KO4).
  • Dean has scored 1.1m on arcade platform at the drop of a hat and has maintained astronomically higher pace very deep into the game on arcade platform.
  • I have performed well at every live event I've ever played at, scoring 1m+ multiple times and taking 3rd overall at KO4. Not to mention the first man 1.1m thing.
The fact of the matter is, every top MAME player has proven their abilities on an arcade cabinet as well. There is no quantifiable evidence I can find to suggest that a top MAME player would struggle on Arcade, or would not be capable of getting the same score on the other platform. I am quite confident that if Dean had access to a cabinet and was grinding on that platform instead of MAME when he was going for his 1.2m, he would've gotten it on Arcade instead. There is little to no evidence that would suggest otherwise.