Donkey Kong Forum
High Score Lists => Donkey Kong High Score Lists => Topic started by: xelnia on February 24, 2019, 06:04:03 am
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Unless there is a consensus against it, I am going to be adding Allen's 910,800 score to the leaderboard.
For those not familiar, on February 21 (22nd his time), Allen streamed a 910,800 killscreen, which was a PB for him. Shortly after the stream, and before a highlight was made, the past broadcast went missing. This was first noticed by Phil Tudose roughly an hour after Allen's stream ended. For reasons outlined below, Allen's local recording was incomplete. Thus, we no longer have video evidence of the score. However, I think the preponderance of existing evidence is enough to allow the score to be included on the HSL.
So what evidence does exist? Visually, there are three items right now: 1) A screenshot (https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/464154887824080898/548362199735992340/Screenshot_2019-02-21-23-33-57.png) of the final score on Allen's stream by Validusername16, 2) a Twitch clip (https://www.twitch.tv/muscleandfitness/clip/ModernCharmingChowderChefFrank) created during 13-2 by jsa714, and 3) the obligatory Staal cell phone pic after he gets a good score. Those items are attached to this post.
What else? At the time the KS occurred, Allen had roughly 45 viewers. I archived the Twitch chat from the entire, now-missing, stream. This shows not only the change in viewers over time, but the reaction of those viewers to the game itself. That chat is also attached to this post as a text file. Note that the timestamps in the file are my local time (Arizona).
Allen also has a Remix kit installed, which saves high scores. The 910,800 is still there and will be until he knocks it out of his top 5 (lol) or resets the high score table.
I came into the stream around 600k. While I was watching the live portion, I immediately started taking stats on the earlier portion of the game.
I was using this link: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/384607979
Had the past broadcast remained, that would have been the link that people would have seen and from which highlights would have been made. When taking stats for live games I usually use a Google Sheet. The live sheet I was working on can be found here (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1x5UrMotupKUCor7G6l9Ra3bYWCVKP4S3zjxVxTFtOJs/edit?usp=sharing). Shortly after the game ended I added the game to kongtrac.kr here (http://kongtrackr.herokuapp.com/#/game/-LZIXNYsUkhMy_ROefgF/summary). Normally I would download the full broadcast of any interesting score, but I didn't expect this one to go missing almost immediately, so I missed the chance to do so.
What about the local recording?
Well, as most everyone knows by now, Allen isn't the most tech-savvy person out there. While he does record locally, his hard drive was essentially full...over 2,000 past recordings pushing 500 GB dating back to 2014. When I was trying to help him with the local recording we found that he only had 62 MB of free space on his hard drive. The local recording of the missing stream was only about 3 minutes long (the start of the stream) and roughly 12 MB in size. That means there are probably a large number of his recent local recordings that are only partial, as OBS is probably nope'ing out once it realizes the hard drive storage is almost full. You can see the file name of the recording in question attached below (2019-02-22 12-46-53). This timestamp filename jives with when the archived chat begins.
So, in summary:
- Nearly 50 people watched Allen achieve this score live on Twitch, supported by the chat archive.
- Fragments of visual evidence do exist to support it (screenshot, Twitch clip, cell phone pic of high score and jank local recording with timestamp filename).
- As HSL moderator, I witnessed the last 300k or so of the game. I also skimmed through the first 600k while taking stats.
This seems akin to a "live verification" scenario. I have absolutely no doubt this score happened and I can't justify excluding it while accepting scores like George Riley's KO6 killscreen. I believe Allen is still trying to communicate with Twitch to see if the past broadcast can be restored. I'm not hopeful that is possible, so I wanted to discuss the situation with the community.
So, I'm asking for more input from you. Unless there is overwhelming opposition, I will be adding this score to the HSL.
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Easy accept. I agree that it’d be like rejecting Riley’s KS because of a lack of video.
Good work Allen! Work on Springs, since 5300 can be improved a lot with 0 prizes.
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Wht da Wow well done Allen Easy Except lit ftt <Sanders>
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I watched it live, starting I think around 700K. It was pretty exciting.
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Very easy accept. I think one would be hard pressed to make an argument against including this score, since it actually does not violate any of the HSL rules that we have here.
I would say there are three rules that would be pertinent in this case:
a. Video evidence must show the complete gameplay, from beginning to end.
b. Players must make a reasonable effort to make their video evidence permanent.
c. Scores done at live events will be accepted if it can be reasonably determined that game settings and platform requirements have been met.
The term "live event" is not clearly-defined here, but I would argue that a Twitch stream where the player can be clearly seen and heard during the stream engaging in two-way interaction with live witnesses in the chat should qualify as a "live event" (as differentiated from an uploaded recording). That happened here.
To reiterate what I said on Discord, if we consider GAME OVER to be the moment of submission and verification (which would make sense since Jeremy was there live to verify it), full video evidence of complete gameplay actually WAS available at the time of submission and verification, and the video was reviewed prior to its disappearance by the same HSL moderator who reviews all other submissions. We have no rule (like at the current TG) that video evidence must remain available for any particular length of time. There are at least a few scores on the HSL that were submitted and verified based on video evidence that has since been lost for various reasons. This particular video was just lost faster than any other video has been (nwr).
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Thank you sir xo
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No Homeo lol
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Easy accept. Put it up there. Congrats Allen!
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100% put it up. He works to hard. LOL
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Seems pretty cut and dry here. Many witnesses on a known good machine played 'live'. I would accept this on just that but with all the other evidence... not even Helen of Troy...
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Yes but maybe some clarification is needed around what constitutes a "live event". What if someone was playing live on twitch and only one person caught the game and no stats were taken before the video disappeared? Do we take their word for it? Does the DKF HSL moderator have to witness it for it to count?
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It’ll always be a case by case judgement for non cut and dry proof scenarios.
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Kongrats <Allen> for a new PB! Yer Buddy OMG LIT! HSL worthy.
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Easy Accept. Allen is legit :)
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Not quite related, but in the same vein... I really wish Scott Kessler's 1M game done in 2008-2009 was on the leaderboard. It makes me sad... though maybe there isn't enough evidence to include it.
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Yes but maybe some clarification is needed around what constitutes a "live event". What if someone was playing live on twitch and only one person caught the game and no stats were taken before the video disappeared? Do we take their word for it? Does the DKF HSL moderator have to witness it for it to count?
ken House lit yer buddy ...
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?
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Calm down <Allen>