Author Topic: Point pressing - Where to start  (Read 10711 times)

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Offline UKP

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Point pressing - Where to start
« on: May 10, 2018, 09:03:34 am »
My main goal is to reach the kill screen but I'd like to pick up a few extra points along the way. For now I only leach kong on the rivet board and get the top hammer on the barrel board. Sometimes I get the bottom hammer on level one. So what would the next point pressing strat be? Getting all the gifts and leaching the fireball and springs on the elevator board? I'm trying to build a beginners list to help get people like me on the right track. I guess from easiest to hardest considering risk and reward.
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Offline homerwannabee

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Re: Point pressing - Where to start
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2018, 09:56:16 am »
One thing that's real easy to rack up about 2,000 to 3,000 more points is to point press the fireball on the elevator board on the 2nd and third level.  Also, don't run the top hammer all the way to the end, get the barrels as the go down the first ladder, and you do that by trying to force their way down that ladder.  It works about 75% of the time.  So you sort of have to be a tad bit careful of the 25% that don't go down that ladder.  Just press the jump button a couple of times real quick right before you are going to hammer the barrel in case your hammer runs out, and you'll be fine.
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WCopeland

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Re: Point pressing - Where to start
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2018, 10:01:03 am »
Before pressing for points you should work on solidifying your foundation. You should be optimized enough running boards that you're able to score 900k just grabbing the top hammer -- no bottom hammers whatsoever. If you start point pressing before this, those additional points can be a crutch that hides major holes in your game.

Most players typically get a first KS of around ~850k, then they optimize/refine what they already know to get another KS at 900k. Some immediately get the ~900k on their first KS, but it's uncommon. Once you're able to run boards for a 900k KS, then you know you're about as optimized as you can be running boards and it's time to start adding in point pressing techniques to increase your pace.

After 900k, the first point pressing technique most players learn is how to utilize the bottom hammer on the barrel boards. If that hammer is properly optimized, your pace should jump from ~900k to ~1.015m, but IMO it's a smart path to success to achieve the 900k first before mixing this in.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2018, 10:05:27 am by WCopeland »

Offline dnickolas

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Re: Point pressing - Where to start
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2018, 10:33:47 am »
Listen to Wes.

My strat was to start by learning advanced techniques to “not develop bad habits”. The end result is some serious holes in my game on pie and rivet and while I can play at a pretty good pace I’m still killscreenless.

14k barrel boards don’t help much if you only end up seeing 10-20 of them instead of the requisite 51 on level 5+.

Also, the little things you can do to pick up points before being solid fundamentally aren’t material in the long run.
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Offline UKP

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Re: Point pressing - Where to start
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2018, 10:34:42 am »
I know getting to the ks should come first but it's hard to resist the temptation. Your advice is wise Wes. I'll keep pushing for the ks.
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Offline serphintizer

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Re: Point pressing - Where to start
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2018, 11:38:28 am »
I took a more unconventional approach to learning the game—sorta like a reverse riviot route. <Allen>

I literally forced myself to learn the most advanced techniques asap. I figured that if I could really beat myself up and condition my mental and physical game to handle the load, then the game would become a lot easier at a much faster rate than just trying to learn the basics first.

I approach everything I want to be good at this way.

I guess you could compare it to how the Russians approached weight training in time past. They would heavily favor what is known as "negative/eccentric training". Say your max bench press was 225lbs. Well, what these guys would do, instead of conventional positive/concentric training (3X10 at like 60% of your max), they would load something like 400lbs. on the bar and lower the weight from an extended position as slooooow as possible, and right when it got to their chest, two spotters would pick it back up and they would do it again until failure (whatever rep they could get to before the weight just started to instantly fall to their chest when trying to lower it because they were completely wiped out by then.)

This type of lifting was turning these men into monsters, and they were becoming so strong it was ridiculous (of course some sauce was mixed in there as well). Not too many people do this anymore because of the high risk of injury, you need other people to help you, and it just does not look "cool" these days.

One of my favorite doc-u-men-taries <Tim> is called "Get A Grip With Joe Kinney". It goes into severe negative type thinking/training, and why it is a great way to fast-track your gains.

If I could go back in time before starting DK, in addition to learning the most advanced techniques asap, I would also incorporate playing the game at 150%+ speed. I would have done that for maybe 6 months to a year, in order to trick (permanently rewire?) my brain into thinking the game was moving in slow motion at regular speed. This is one reason I suggest to high level Tetris players to basically only practice kill screen speed for hours on end (trying to make lines the best you can, but mainly for training your eyes and brain...etc.). In my opinion, it would make L19+ seem like an absolute joke, and there potentially could be a lot more max-out players as a result.

Just some nuggets....whether gold or pyrite, that is up to you. 8)
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bh

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Re: Point pressing - Where to start
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2018, 05:58:56 pm »
I think learning to entertain those watching you stream should be the highest priority.

There are players who have made minimal mental investments to get where they are today (viewership-wise), some that take great pride in "shortcuts" even.  Billy is outed now, but there is no shortage of "shortcuts" out there you can subscribe to if your ethics allow.  It just depends on what you value more.  A commitment to the game or the ability to be a player who is rewarded with the attention of other viewers.

I get as much satisfaction out of having a nicer cabinet than the next guy as a higher score.  And I value the opinion of top players more than the opinion of someone who is just a casual observer.

It all takes dedication and knowledge.  Decide who in the community is important to you, and operate accordingly to the shared values of those people you are friends with.

There are multiple pockets and/or team even that have unusual approaches to getting those viewers.  Start there.  Figure out who you respect, and value their opinion on what direction to go accordingly.

what.

Offline wolfman24

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Re: Point pressing - Where to start
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2018, 06:07:21 pm »
I don't think being entertaining while playing donkey kong is possible so I don't see why he should focus on being entertaining over getting a killscreen lol
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Offline wolfman24

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Re: Point pressing - Where to start
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2018, 06:09:33 pm »
come on we both know  <Allen> doesn't play donkey kong
barra on hearing wolf for the 1st time  "wolf is a child and that is a man talking"

Barra [11|Jul 04:57 PM] Barra: I'll be happy with whatever wolf decides, but will still do my fair share of whinging
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Offline ZedIsDead

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Re: Point pressing - Where to start
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2018, 06:37:04 pm »
I know getting to the ks should come first

I think learning to entertain those watching you stream should be the highest priority.

There are players who have made minimal mental investments to get where they are today (viewership-wise), some that take great pride in "shortcuts" even.  Billy is outed now, but there is no shortage of "shortcuts" out there you can subscribe to if your ethics allow.  It just depends on what you value more.  A commitment to the game or the ability to be a player who is rewarded with the attention of other viewers.

I get as much satisfaction out of having a nicer cabinet than the next guy as a higher score.  And I value the opinion of top players more than the opinion of someone who is just a casual observer.

It all takes dedication and knowledge.  Decide who in the community is important to you, and operate accordingly to the shared values of those people you are friends with.

There are multiple pockets and/or team even that have unusual approaches to getting those viewers.  Start there.  Figure out who you respect, and value their opinion on what direction to go accordingly.

Ah, so THAT'S why I don't have a killscreen. If I were just a bit more entertaining, I could show those level 4 springs who's boss. This has been eye-opening.
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Offline ZedIsDead

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Re: Point pressing - Where to start
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2018, 11:57:14 pm »
I know getting to the ks should come first

I think learning to entertain those watching you stream should be the highest priority.

There are players who have made minimal mental investments to get where they are today (viewership-wise), some that take great pride in "shortcuts" even.  Billy is outed now, but there is no shortage of "shortcuts" out there you can subscribe to if your ethics allow.  It just depends on what you value more.  A commitment to the game or the ability to be a player who is rewarded with the attention of other viewers.

I get as much satisfaction out of having a nicer cabinet than the next guy as a higher score.  And I value the opinion of top players more than the opinion of someone who is just a casual observer.

It all takes dedication and knowledge.  Decide who in the community is important to you, and operate accordingly to the shared values of those people you are friends with.

There are multiple pockets and/or team even that have unusual approaches to getting those viewers.  Start there.  Figure out who you respect, and value their opinion on what direction to go accordingly.

Ah, so THAT'S why I don't have a killscreen. If I were just a bit more entertaining, I could show those level 4 springs who's boss. This has been eye-opening.

It's almost like you're trying to make my suggestion sound ridiculous (as in an RAA proof) but I am having trouble seeing the absurd here.  Can you help me out?

You do know that if you're more entertaining that you are going to play more often, right?  That needs to be one of the givens.

And it may be player dependent, but a vast majority of players improve their skill, sometimes with intermittent quantum leaps, when they play more frequently and for longer periods of time.

The investment of time is the critical requirement that most cannot get over.  Some argue it can easily be mitigated with specific learning techniques (how to train your brain as quickly as possible).  That's not something that I have done myself, so if you go that route, you'll take advice from someone besides me.

But my advice is to learn to enjoy playing the game and spending time with your friends.  I think that's the formula that is working for the top players right now.

Alright, now that you've further clarified your position, it does not seem quite as confusingly off-topic as I thought it was. However, I wouldn't say that being entertaining is particularly necessary. Sure, it can help to get more people around to encourage you, but there are people out there like Robbie who played offline and then uploaded his world record INP to Twitch afterward. If you have enough drive, you don't need an audience.
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Offline Kewydee_17

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Re: Point pressing - Where to start
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2018, 05:36:54 am »
Another thing to consider is: What does your stream look like?


Is it actually watchable?


Do you stream at such a high bit rate (noob mistake) that anyone with a slow connection cannot watch? There is no real need for 1080p or 60 frames a sec on a game that is 240p originally


Do you have super tiny text on screen that is unreadable even on a 40 inch screen?


Do you run full video behind the play field making everything fuzzy and hard to follow?


Do you play copyrighted music that mutes any later watching? Silent streams don't get many views


Do you even archive your streams on Twitch. Not all viewers will live in your time-zone.


These are just a few mistakes I've made myself or seen on Twitch streams.


Great quality game-play will attract viewers. An unwatchable stream will drive them away.


Don't make your stream hard to watch with basic errors like I've outlined.


OBS is a powerful program, with lots of options. Doesn't mean you have to use all of them on your stream


Less is often more.


Edit: Audio issues


Do you shout / scream during play? If so you may be overloading your audio and turning it to crap. If your audio input levels are set too high, anything above the ambient levels will distort and make listening unbearable. Remember, the microphone in a web-cam is not that high quality. Easy to make them distort.


When testing a stream for quality, run it through this site

https://r-1.ch/analyzer/


This analyser will highlight any bitrate, frame loss or audio issues you may have. Run your stream for 5 minutes, then test it with the analyser.


Hope this helps improve streams  :)


Mods: If you feel this post should be moved to a more stream focussed thread, please move it.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2018, 07:28:22 am by Kewydee_17 »
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Offline sleepygary

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Re: Point pressing - Where to start
« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2018, 07:56:18 am »
... (of course some sauce was mixed in there as well). ...

Will this sauce do?

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Offline dnickolas

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Re: Point pressing - Where to start
« Reply #13 on: May 22, 2018, 10:36:02 am »
I basically took the serphy approach. “Well if Wes and Dean and Robbie do this stuff, then I can too.” I didn’t want to build up bad habits. The result? I have the same chance of dying on a barrel board while pressing as I do when running boards. Aside from some quick-grab brain freezes my springs are solid, and safely grabbing the third prize isn’t an issue at all. Pies and rivets are my worst, as there is much less known about those boards other than general patterns and “don’t make any mistakes.”

I have been toying with the 150% idea recently, mainly because my rivets are bad and that’s all about split second decisions.

Serphy is clearly the posterboy for this “learn the advanced stuff first” strat, as he’s arguably the best dk player alive right now. Certainly he’s among the top 4 and is better than anyone at certain aspects of the game.

So in the end, if you just want to killscreen then ignore serphy. If you want to be among the best, do what he did since it works.

As for tetris, I’d argue that playing on 19 at a higher speed in an emulator would be better than just starting at 29. You’d basically be forced to hypertap since DAS won’t even let you clear more than a line or 2 on 29, and becoming a hypertapper isn’t necessary at all for maxouts. You’ll also never get good at stacking since you literally won’t be able to stack high enough to make it matter.
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